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Vaping

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Vaping

Postby kats » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:43 pm

Anybody vaping?

I'm not trying to replace "real" tobacco with it, or even cut back on my light use and enjoyment of pipes and cigars... but it's got me interested.

Anyone with experience to share or advice to spew?
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Re: Vaping

Postby bearded1 » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:22 pm

I'm mildly curious...but it sure seems to be the next "thing" socially. I see so many people walking around with those in their hands and puffing on them wherever. It almost replaces their cell phones for priority. I also don't like seeing people use them in restaurants and stores and whatnot. Why? I'm not sure...I guess I see it along the same lines as not taking your hat off inside, or looking at your cell while someone is talking to you.

I also don't think we have seen the full medical ramifications of this activity yet either.
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Re: Vaping

Postby ratatosk » Sat Feb 22, 2014 8:39 pm

I see people using these things at work, some of them have $80+ rigs. I don't care whether they use them or not, but I understand that aside from just being a nicotine delivery system, there are a lot of flavors like "cotton candy" offered. That bothers me because it sounds like it is aimed at kids and the last thing we need to something else to get the Tobacco Nazis sputtering and whining.

I personally have no interest as I have gone almost 13 months now without a cigarette, get all of the nicotine I care for from my pipes, and can manage a few hours without a smoke without any problem. I enjoy the pipe smoking experience and adult flavors, but if it takes vaping to get others off of cigarettes, I'd say fine.
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Re: Vaping

Postby JacintoCupboard » Sun Feb 23, 2014 1:28 am

People vape for different reasons. For some it's the flavours, for others it's a nicotine delivery system, for people like me it was a way of substituting the mechanics of hand to mouth, and for others it is the 'throat hit'. Not exclusive categories.

Some observations, all my own opinion. The flavours are awful. If you are the sort of person who has secretly considered drinking your strawberry scented shampoo, then you are going to love the flavours available to you with vaping. And the tobacco flavours....if you love tobacco as I do, well it is an insult to tobacco. Some vendors are making eliquid by steeping tobacco to extract flavour and aroma compounds. I fail to see how this does not also bring across the tobacco specific nitrosamines (TSNAs) that are known carcinogens. Vapers seem to think inhaling these TSNAs into the lungs via vapourising is far safer than pyrolysis. I think that is a flaky assumption. From a harm reduction perspective, it is far more rational to simply not inhale tobacco smoke. There are, after all, no taste buds in your delicate lungs, and nicotine, a harmless stimulant in the doses smoking provides, is readily absorbed by the body through the tissues of the mouth.

As a nascent industry, vaping is full of both genuine enthusiasts and people pushing products. Shills abound. On forums the newb will be told that he just has to have a particular sort of set up to attain satisfaction. In fact vaping can be done very simply and very inexpensively. My setup cost me less than $100 and it would cost me about that amount again per year for consumables.

As an aside, and you may give this observation whatever weight you choose, the most startling discovery for me with vaping was that I was NOT addicted to nicotine. I went from a 40 a day cigarette habit of 30 plus years to vaping 36mg nicotine menthol eliquid. Since this involved the regular importation of eliquid I decided just to go nicotine free. I made up my own eliquid from Propylene Glycol and Queen's mint essence, the latter straight off the supermarket shelves. I didn't even skip a beat, not the slightest craving whatever.

As a method of quitting cigarettes I couldn't recommend vaping highly enough. Some anecdotal evidence has the success rate as high as 90 odd percent. As a taste experience it will not suit the refined palettes I assume all of this forum's members possess.
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Re: Vaping

Postby gnossos » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:14 am

They're fine. They can help you get off cigarettes because you can slowly adjust the amount of nicotine delivered down until it's zero, though I do know folks who continue to vape with zero nicotine. I guess the physical habit of smoking can be the hardest to break.

The flavors are because people like flavors. I guess we could ban 1Q for being too sweet if we wanted to go down that path, though.

Most people I know who have gone to vaping have just replaced cigarette smoking with vaping, though. They aren't quitting nicotine.
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Re: Vaping

Postby stormwulf133 » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:54 pm

ratatosk wrote:I see people using these things at work, some of them have $80+ rigs. I don't care whether they use them or not, but I understand that aside from just being a nicotine delivery system, there are a lot of flavors like "cotton candy" offered. That bothers me because it sounds like it is aimed at kids and.


This is one of my pet peeves. Sorry no offense to yourself but this has GOT to stop. Why is it anything with flavor now is aimed at kids? Cant get certain cigs because they were "aimed at kids" the cigar market is under fire because flavored cigars are "aimed at kids" and pipe tobacco will be next. Apparently adults can not enjoy flavors. Never once have I seen an adult drink a strawberry lime-aide, or eat a candy bar, or eat cotton candy, or a piece of pie, or a cake. All kids. Never once an adult. Sheesh. I hate hate hate that mindset. If people would stop thinking with opinions and think with facts a whole lot of the worlds problems would be solved. Fact both adults and kids enjoy the same flavors. So making something in said flavor doesn't market it toward kids. Ok, again, not a personal attack....ending the rant now.
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Re: Vaping

Postby ratatosk » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:11 pm

Whether an adult would find a cotton candy or gummy bear flavored smoke appealing or not is debatable, but my point was that by offering these flavors which do appeal to kids, the vendors are just setting themselves up to be flattened by the bedwetters, the same thing happened with the dreadful Indian clove cigarettes. There isn't any doubt that kids are partaking and the regulation drumbeat has started both in the US and in Europe, http://www.huffingtonpost.com/youth-radio-youth-media-international/candy-flavors-put-e-cigar_b_4833602.html

There is always a spillover when they get started with crusades, I just don't see the upside of inviting one.
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Re: Vaping

Postby JacintoCupboard » Sun Feb 23, 2014 9:51 pm

I well remember one youtube reviewer getting all excited about his new vape tasting just like his favourite confectionery. Why anyone would choose to pay $10 for 5 ml of ejuice rather than just buy a bag of lollies defeats me.

Again, the anecdotal evidence is that people who move to vaping tend to be hard core cigarette smokers for whom other methods of smoking cessation have failed. If adding flavours makes that transition to a safer way of getting nicotine easier, then we probably shouldn't discourage it.

The reason governments hate vaping is simple: loss of tax revenues. The reason ANTZ hate it is that it looks like smoking but is absolutely harmless to them.

Myself, I enjoy vaping but I am torn between the desire to be a positive advocate for vaping and my disgust with the exploitative elements that have emerged in the industry.
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Re: Vaping

Postby stormwulf133 » Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:53 am

ratatosk wrote:Whether an adult would find a cotton candy or gummy bear flavored smoke appealing or not is debatable, but my point was that by offering these flavors which do appeal to kids, the vendors are just setting themselves up to be flattened by the bedwetters,


Maybe because adults WANT those flavors? Kids like booze, lets just take it all off the market by your logic. Its just inviting a problem.
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Re: Vaping

Postby KevLa » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:02 am

I've already given up tobacco cigarettes, but only with the help of my pipes. Since I now LOVE smoking tobacco, and am not concerned about the comparatively minor health risks, I am sticking with pipe smoking :)_,~
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Re: Vaping

Postby gnossos » Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:43 pm

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Re: Vaping

Postby JacintoCupboard » Thu Mar 06, 2014 2:20 am

gnossos wrote:http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2014/03/04/l-a-city-council-unanimously-bans-vaping-in-public-places/

lol what a crock of shit


I am old enough, as would be many in this community, to remember a world where smoking was allowed on planes, trains and buses; in theatres and shops and even doctors' waiting rooms. I wouldn't want to go back to that world, and not just for health reasons either. The smoky nicotine haze that filled a bus on a long winter's ride across town was literally sickening, even for a smoker like myself. The guy at the next table who lit up a Cuban just as you were deciding which fork to use with your entree was capable of ruining your evening.

The sad truth is that a lot of people are pillocks and are unable to exercise personal responsibility for themselves and those around them and government must therefore step in. Even if vaping is entirely harmless, and it probably is, it is still a phenomenon that intrudes into the personal space of others in a way that can be offensive.

When we, as mostly gentile, pipe smokers think back on times friendlier to our habit or hobby, we shouldn't overlook that in that almost mythic Edwardian time, people were governed by personal responsibility in a way that is not the case today. Men didn't light up before the end of a meal. It was normal to ask, 'Do you mind if I smoke?'

At some point well before our own, all this went by the wayside. First it was the 'Me Generation', then it was the procession of late alphabet named gens, each seemingly more rude and thoughtless than the one that preceded it.

On vape forums these pricks boast about vaping in places they know they shouldn't. Planes, hospitals, you name it. They get a kick out of their naughtiness. Yeah right, way to change the system man.

These bans on vaping do go too far. A decent, caring society would be encouraging smokers to make the transition.
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Re: Vaping

Postby gnossos » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:15 am

Well, even if it was allowed you wouldn't light a cigarette at the dinner table. Courtesies apply to any habit. Banning it from a park because you're afraid that someone with what looks like a magic wand that dispenses nicotine vapor would convince kids to smoke cigarettes is a little silly.

The only people who would willingly pick up a vaporizer for any reason other than to get off of cigarettes are probably the folks who watch way too much steampunk anime.
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Re: Vaping

Postby JacintoCupboard » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:58 am

I don't disagree with you my friend. The issue is nuanced. How for example to treat someone vaping a cannabis flavoured eliquid? And yes, they do exist. And how to distinguish both in law and practice between someone actually using a herbal vapouriser either for cannabis or other herbs, and eliquid? And how to distinguish a park as a large expanse of greenery from somewhere that might include a playground or sports field?

I was once watching my kids training at field hockey. This was at an elite private school. I was in my car because it was bucketing down with rain at night in the middle of winter. I had the window cracked to let out the copious amounts of vapour I was producing. I watched as a large figure trudged across the adjacent oval, shoulder to the wind and rain, some 200 metres to my car.

'Excuse me Sir', said the security guard, 'I appreciate you are in your own vehicle but you are still on school property and smoking is prohibited.'

'I am not smoking,' I said. 'This is a personal vapouriser.' I then flamboyantly demonstrated how it worked.

The guard then apologised and plodded back thru the pouring rain to the buildings from which he had emerged.

The point here is I think is that distinguishing between vapour and smoke by both other citizens and law enforcement is going to be a vexatious burden to all concerned, especially when it involves 'cigalikes' and tobacco or cannabis flavoured eliquids. Personally, I don't want to dick anyone around and if all that is being asked is that I refrain from vaping where smoking itself is not allowed, then I can live with that. Where there is a problem I think, is the poor bastards who are trying to quit cigarettes using PVs and who now find they can't do that when out and about. From a health perspective that is a piss poor official response.
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Re: Vaping

Postby SteveH » Mon Mar 10, 2014 10:26 pm

Smoke or don't smoke, but fer gawd's sake, don't e-smoke!
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Re: Vaping

Postby gnossos » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:02 pm

Day 10 without cigarettes thanks to the vape :)
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Re: Vaping

Postby KevLa » Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:30 pm

gnossos wrote:Day 10 without cigarettes thanks to the vape :)

Well done, sir! :)
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Re: Vaping

Postby JacintoCupboard » Tue Mar 11, 2014 10:18 pm

Indeed. Congratulations. :)
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Re: Vaping

Postby Falconeer » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:20 pm

These things have have off very big style in Spain. The cigarette look alikes are not so poular but the EC4 Elecrtronic devices are the thing. Here with the liquied they come in about 15 euros. Just for fun I converted one into a pipe using a broken corn cob before Christmas. Worked OK but I´m not wild about the experience.

You can get relatively convincing old style Brit tobacco tasting juices even though they are supposed to be copies of cigarette flavours such as Chesterfield etc.
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Re: Vaping

Postby gnossos » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:30 am

Today marks four weeks. I'm on a stupid fluid that is half the strength of that which I started at.

That said: I found out a local "vape store" opened up and I went by to get some supplies and the guy directed me to his "menu", which frankly was massive. A little overwhelmed, I asked for the regular, not-fruit stuff and was given something that I was told was supposed to be similar to tobacco (none of it is, but the "tobacco" flavors span the gamut from maple syrup to Mixture 79) while being assured it had a vanilla cappuccino flavor at the same time.

I'm very very glad it's here to help but oof. I guess that sort of thing will help when I get down to 0 nicotine and want to quit this thing too. It's picking up a lot, I see it everywhere in the city, young and old. It is going to be so wild to see a time where dudes are trying act hard while ripping (supposedly) safe electronic banana-flavored cigarettes like some bounty hunter from a steampunk fan fiction.
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