before you start off about Nazis: both right and left

[gnossos]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... e-mitchell

I like this article.

[ewlewis]

Only a true Nazi would post such rubbish.

[acaciavet]

I for one keep my mouth shut.Loose lips hurt good folks.

[CPWSolf]

That is a cracking link! Most certainly worth the read just to make me chuckle.
Let's hope no-one posts after me, or alas we will come closer to proving Godwin's Law correct in this thread :D

[gnossos]

glad you liked it, it can be a touchy subject

I clearly lean left but I have to say I'm glad to hear people calling the left for using it too And good point, I have a bad habit of starting threads that could easily lead to a can of worms.

[highstump]

And good point, I have a bad habit of starting threads that could easily lead to a can of worms.

You! No, not you!

[gnossos]

lol I don't generally INTEND to

[bob9039]

I'm way behind replying to this but the article is just jibberish. The flaw in the logic is not many people are actually crying Hitler (oh, maybe MSNBC shows "teabaggers" in a rage) . But many people are crying liberal fascism which is what the current administration is promoting. And before anyone responds in a tizzy about Glen Beck, let me challenge you to read up a bit on what liberal fascism really is. It's not Hitlers fascism. It's nice fascism where the Gov't wants people to rely on them. Causes it. The current administration truely believes they can create a utopia where everyone is taken care of (by redistributing money). Capatilism bad. It's a massive growth of Gov't where the money is actually going to the bureaucracy, pork, and buying private industry. Where are the Obama bucks for the needy?

No educated conservative is claiming in any way a connection to the evil that Hitler did. It's progressivism. Read up on that too. Most of Europe isn't doing so well and Obama is experimenting with their failed policies.


Bob

[gnossos]

Thank you for the response

I think Obama is way more centrist than leftists want him to be, and what right wingers paint him to be. He's a centrist. This is why the hard left is sitting by saying "wtf" when his policies were quite clear if they were paying attention.

Personally I think he's far from perfect, but I think he's better than what we had. Change doesn't happen immediately and it isn't going to happen just because we vote in a half white half black guy who leans Democrat. I personally don't think we have a true progressive party and if you read progressive columnists you'll find they feel similarly.

Many find him to be more of the same. I can see that, but I think it's at least a step in the right direction. If he was so hard left then we'd have a public option for health care and gitmo would be closed and no us troops would be in the middle east. If the left paid attention they'd know he campaigned on focusing on Afghanistan and Pakistan, not on getting them out.

Not perfect. Just different. All you can do is settle at this point. No viable politician is going to win the nomination much less the election.

I talk to folks from the EU and I consider myself a leftist - they think I'm insane to consider myself such and view the US as a center/right country. Lately I think they're right. Beck et. al just like to troll for bucks and don't really - or at least shouldn't - effect political discourse here.

[bob9039]

If this doesn't stimulate this forum nothing will!

I have to respectfully disagree with your analysis of Obama (and the previous administration) There is nothing more I can say...

Bob

[acaciavet]

Obama is an ass.He is out to destroy the private sector and redistribute my wealth. I am man enough to say it I voted for the white guy.

[beaupipe]

Obama is an ass.He is out to destroy the private sector and redistribute my wealth. I am man enough to say it I voted for the white guy.

You mean, as opposed to the "right" guy?

It's about time race showed up hard and obvious in this thread. It was feeling un-American for a moment there.

[SmokinFool]

I don't really feel that race has anything to do with it, at least not for me. I must of course concede that most African Americans trend liberal. For me, I look for candidates who reflect my views and values. Take JC Watts for example. I like what he did during his time in Congress. I like what he stands for. The fact the he is African American does not enter into the equation. I was sorry he retired in 2003 and didn't seek re-election. He was a political star on the rise, and he could have become a presidential candidate, in which case I would most assuredly have voted for him.

[gnossos]

yeah no guilt for not voting for Obama

Palin would have kept me from it but yeah, vote white brown purple, whatever you see as right I certainly didn't vote Obama because he was kinda brown.

I think there are some calling liberal fascism, yes (I don't particularly agree with the logic behind it but I get it) but I also think there are a lot of people who were previously apolitical who lost their jobs during the economic downturn who became very political right about when Obama took office, and they might not distinguish quite so much.

I don't watch MSNBC or any tv news regularly, I read a lot of different online news (and not all liberal in the least). I don't even have cable

I think the thing is, I don't love the guy, he does a lot I don't like. He's authorized the assassination of a US citizen on foreign soil without habeus corpus (just some supposed good evidence that he was participating with terrorist groups and funding them) and he's silenced more whistleblowers now than Bush did. The thing is the stuff I don't like about him, sometimes seems like the stuff Bush supporters would like about Bush.

I definitely think you should refer to your '09 tax returns before saying he's taking your wealth and redistributing it though. Unless you make over 250k you should be paying the same or usually less, and if you're paying more, fire whoever is helping you with your taxes

[bob9039]

It's not the 09 tax returns that I'm worried about. I'm worried about 11,12,13 and beyond.

My real gripe is the taxation without representation. So here's how I see it... and this applies to both Republicans and Democrats. They all want to spend more of our money but don't have the balls to increase taxes due to re-election fears. So, they borrow as much money as they want, spend as much as they want, and don't have to raise taxes to pay for it (yet). It's not sustainable, but it's what congress has been doing for some time now. All the while the people are happy that their taxes are not going up! Eventually, taxes will have to skyrocket to avoid another financial disaster.

Bob

[acaciavet]

I Agree with Bob 100% I hear your boy wants to take away the Mortage deduction? Sounds kike a tax increase to me,and I dont make 250K. Hear is the deal I have never worked for a poor man and I thank God for my wealthy boss every day. I have never asked him to share his wealth with me other then my pay package. I earned it I keep it so the crack head welfare slob can kiss my ass.

[loren]

I personally don’t think there is too much daylight between the republicans and the democrats but I think there is a problem with how the terms “capitalism” and “free market” are used.

Way, way back when I got my undergraduate in economics, free market meant goods were voluntarily exchanged at a price arranged solely by the mutual consent of sellers and buyers. By definition, buyers and sellers do not coerce each other...or use fraud (criminal means), they engage in trade simply because both consent. Price is the result of over-all buying and selling decisions as a group (locally, nationally or internationally). Also, included in the definition was the ‘free flow of accurate information’, because people would make decisions in their best interests based upon this information.

Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned... and courses of action are decided by private decisions in the free market.

The key phrase here is ‘in the free market’. The market certainly isn’t free, no one can claim otherwise. It is exceedingly compromised by crime and corruption.

Gingrich is brilliant when it comes to labeling opposition with catch-phrases or words that frighten people. So if Gingrich et. al. insist on claiming Obama and/or the democrats are “socialists” they should at least continue the thought and say “we would rather keep the robber baron society in place!”

Also I find corporate welfare more distasteful than individual welfare. Personally, I would take billions in government disbursements if I could skim a few billion for myself and "create jobs" with the remainder, wouldn't you?

Loren

[bob9039]

Yuri, see you've been to Wikipedia.

I see what you mean though. I wish lived in Russia too, where the criminals can't influence the markets. And the quality of life there is so much better. Damn, why did I have to be born in America. This sucks.

[loren]

Y. Doodle, No, old econ books (books you know books?), 'probly where wiki got it. I fergat, if yer been skreew in u.s. of a. thats ok causin there isin other places worser ofen than you. Kinda like telling your sister not to be upset about being raped by one man, because some one else down the street got raped by two.

[SmokinFool]

We still have the best system going. Is there corruption? You bet. However, I would rather have to root out the bad guys and give them the boot, than have to give my rights away to the government so it can do things "for my benefit." Contrary to what some may believe, I ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT'S BEST FOR ME. I'm not willing to let some bureaucrat in Washington make my life decisions for me.

Before someone accuses me of being a "right-winger" (whatever that means), I'm actually a libertarian. Look it up. That's what was originally intended.