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Jefferson on religion

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Jefferson on religion

Postby HowlinWolf » Fri Apr 08, 2011 4:19 pm

I saw Mike Huckabee on TV making the case that the USA was founded by Christians and intended to be a Christian country. Jefferson was cited as evidence of this. A lot.

In case you think this is being posted by an atheist with an agenda, you are mistaken. I was raised Catholic and remain so, albeit non practicing these days.

At this site

http://www.nobeliefs.com/jefferson.htm

are a whole string of direct Jeffersonian quotes about Christianity and religion in general.

(I think many of them are just this side of blasphemous, but so what?)

They are there to see, for any who every once in a while like some fact checking re: the lies their heroes (or nemeses as the case may be) are spewing out.

Let's get two things 100% straight and completely out of the way, right up front:
(1)
I don't intend to debate about this. I'm simply presenting the material for whatever it's worth to the reader. If it's worthless to the reader, I have no problem with that at all. None.
(2)
A POV that the quotes are taken out of context needs to come to grips with the sheer number of quotes all saying more or less the same thing.
This post is packaged by intellectual weight, not volume. Some settling of contents may have occurred during transmission.
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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby KevLa » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:10 pm

HowlinWolf wrote:I saw Mike Huckabee on TV...

Very interesting reading, mate. Thanks for sharing it with us :)
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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby ScotsJim » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:18 pm

I concur.

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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby ruraldean » Fri Apr 08, 2011 5:32 pm

My understanding was that the USA founding fathers were largely Deists, (whereby they believe in a supreme being but not necessarily the Christian God) and that your constitution protects freedom of worship because it is a specifically non-Christian country. I'm no student of US history though, to be fair. :oops:
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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby ScotsJim » Fri Apr 08, 2011 7:59 pm

ruraldean wrote:My understanding was that the USA founding fathers were largely Deists, (whereby they believe in a supreme being but not necessarily the Christian God)


Oh come on Paul ! You'll be telling us next they were all Free Masons ;) :lol:

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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby winston » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:32 am

This is an intersting article. Thanks
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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby SmokinFool » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:50 am

ScotsJim wrote:
ruraldean wrote:My understanding was that the USA founding fathers were largely Deists, (whereby they believe in a supreme being but not necessarily the Christian God)


Oh come on Paul ! You'll be telling us next they were all Free Masons ;) :lol:

Regards,
Jim


If I remember my US history correctly, most of the founding fathers were indeed Christians. However, they saw the benefit of (and the need to protect) the right of all citizens to hold whatever faith (or no faith) they assumed unto themselves, and to practice said faith in whatever means deemed appropriate by each citizen.

A Freemason must profess belief in a benevolent supreme being, however the details of said belief is left up to the individual. This is simply to remove religion as a point of contention among Masons. As a Christian and a Mason, I concur with this reasoning.
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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby SteveMc » Sat Apr 09, 2011 11:55 am

SmokinFool wrote:
ScotsJim wrote:
ruraldean wrote:My understanding was that the USA founding fathers were largely Deists, (whereby they believe in a supreme being but not necessarily the Christian God)


Oh come on Paul ! You'll be telling us next they were all Free Masons ;) :lol:

Regards,
Jim


If I remember my US history correctly, most of the founding fathers were indeed Christians. However, they saw the benefit of (and the need to protect) the right of all citizens to hold whatever faith (or no faith) they assumed unto themselves, and to practice said faith in whatever means deemed appropriate by each citizen.

A Freemason must profess belief in a benevolent supreme being, however the details of said belief is left up to the individual. This is simply to remove religion as a point of contention among Masons. As a Christian and a Mason, I concur with this reasoning.


Andy

This is a question asked with respect. As a Mason and a Christian how do you reconcile making oaths to a non specified higher power other than your Christian God. Or in your mind is your focus on such occasions in a Christian context.


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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby ScotsJim » Sat Apr 09, 2011 6:34 pm

SmokinFool wrote:A Freemason must profess belief in a benevolent supreme being, however the details of said belief is left up to the individual. This is simply to remove religion as a point of contention among Masons. As a Christian and a Mason, I concur with this reasoning.


A brother told me that too bro ;)

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Jim
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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby dlgillen » Sat Apr 09, 2011 7:00 pm

Seems there are alot of "traveling men" on this fourm ;)
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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby SmokinFool » Sat Apr 09, 2011 9:24 pm

SteveMc wrote:This is a question asked with respect. As a Mason and a Christian how do you reconcile making oaths to a non specified higher power other than your Christian God. Or in your mind is your focus on such occasions in a Christian context.

SteveMc


When I pray, I pray to God the Father or to Jesus Christ. I don't pray to a "non specified higher power." In Freemasonry, the higher power in which all members must openly profess belief, is left unspecified only so that each individual can worship and pray to whatever higher power in which he believes. When a Mason swears to something, each individual is swearing to whatever God in which he believes.

Hope that helps explain.

dlgillen wrote:Seems there are alot of "traveling men" on this fourm


Indeed. Very interesting.

Hello brothers! :D
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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby SteveMc » Sat Apr 09, 2011 10:25 pm

Thanks.

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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby mike » Sun Apr 10, 2011 1:42 pm

Smoking fool, Ask your 'god' if your'e worthy of that avatar pic, ha ha..just jokin'
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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby ScotsJim » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:04 pm

mike wrote:Smoking fool, Ask your 'god' if your'e worthy of that avatar pic, ha ha..just jokin'


You a big WHO fan Mike ? I was more a Led Zep man myself.

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Jim
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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby SmokinFool » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:22 pm

mike wrote:Smoking fool, Ask your 'god' if your'e worthy of that avatar pic, ha ha..just jokin'



Nah, I won't bother Him with such trivial things. I deem myself worthy. :D
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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby mike » Mon Apr 11, 2011 5:51 pm

Good answer, S F. And, of course She's so busy right now with this messy world, M.
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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby SmokinFool » Mon Apr 11, 2011 7:45 pm

mike wrote:Good answer, S F. And, of course She's so busy right now with this messy world, M.


Touché!
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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby mike » Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:23 pm

Touche, Bladester...no flies on you...M
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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby brim325 » Sat Apr 30, 2011 11:40 pm

ScotsJim wrote:
mike wrote:Smoking fool, Ask your 'god' if your'e worthy of that avatar pic, ha ha..just jokin'


You a big WHO fan Mike ? I was more a Led Zep man myself.

Regards,
Jim


Same here Jim, Led Zep was & still is my all time favorite Rock Band.


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Re: Jefferson on religion

Postby gnossos » Sun May 01, 2011 4:58 am

This is an interesting discussion, I enjoyed the first post
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