HowlinWolf wrote:ChuckMac wrote:It just disturbs me that some politician who sits behind a desk, has never served this country, won't even salute it's flag, runs around other nations apologizing for America gets credit for something he had nothing to do with when it comes right down to it getting done. So. Where the hell is "a victory for Obama"?
the failed desert rescue mission. Who took the heat for that? Jimmy Carter or Pinky Lee? Carter. In your view - Was that heat justified, or not? Since your criterion is how much the president has "to do with when it comes right down to it getting done."
I don't feel Carter was at fault. How could he be? Did he gather the intel? Anyone not there can only go by what he's told and if he's told wrong what kind of decision is he gonna make? There's almost no way around it. Nothing is set in stone and it all changes damned fast at times. I was a ground pounder in Viet Nam. I saw first hand how things worked out sometimes and how fast a situation can go to hell. Everything falling into place the way you need it to and then a few hours later it all blows up in your face.
Corollary of the same point: if your point is that it's the CIC and the boots on the ground who deserve the credit, not Obama:
do you lay the responsibility for the failure of the desert rescue mission at the feet of the CIC and the boots on the ground, not Carter? I.e. the CIC and the boots on the ground own that failure, not Carter?
Right. Carter wasn't responsible for what ultimately happened. He wasn't there and he didn't gather the intel but the forces on the ground may not have been responsible for things going wrong either. I wasn't there. I don't know what happened.
If what you really want to say is "I don't like Obama. I don't care what he does or does not do - I'm not going to like it."
then just say it.
The reasons you're using are painting you into a corner. Cut your losses - just say you can't stand the guy and leave it at that.
I didn't blame Kennedy for the bay of pigs. The Prez, whoever he is, isn't on the ground fighting or gathering intel. His eyes and ears aren't there. It's not his ass on the line. He isn't controlling anything. All he does is to say do it or don't do it based on what he's told. He deserves no credit if it goes well or blame if it goes badly in my opinion. He, whoever he is, is held accountable for making a good or bad decision but it is the people there on the ground who are responsible for how things go down. They deserve credit if it goes right and they get the blame if it goes wrong even if it is not their fault it went wrong.
BTW, as a matter of fact I don't like Obama. I can't stand the guy but I still have a brain capable of forming viable opinions although opinions are like arm pits. Everyone has them and they all stink.