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E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

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E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby ragefather » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:13 pm

This is a couple months old but I just noticed the article. Let me start by saying that I don't use e-cigarettes, but I have a big problem with this law. How is this a public health issue? This is prohibitionists passing a law simply because they don't want you to do it. What's the next chemical they target, caffeine?

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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby ChuckMac » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:22 pm

ragefather wrote:This is a couple months old but I just noticed the article. Let me start by saying that I don't use e-cigarettes, but I have a big problem with this law. How is this a public health issue? This is prohibitionists passing a law simply because they don't want you to do it. What's the next chemical they target, caffeine?



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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby Bob » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:08 pm

All tobacco products are banned on my workplace property. They also included e-cigarettes but not nicotine gum or patches. They give out the patches. I'm sure it's all related to what they pay for employee health insurance. This is how the Gov't gets what they want. It's all done in a round about sneaky way. They threaten the health insurance company's pocket book and it flows down to us in a hidden manner.
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby RompinDonkey » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:40 pm

.... and yet as the years tick by, scientists are discovering the advantages of nicotine to health. This must be so hard for them to publish.

We've known it for as long as we have smoked.
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby acaciavet » Sun Jan 29, 2012 7:46 pm

What can I say its MASS. A cople of degrees more fucked up then NY State. Since I have entered my 60s I have got to the point that screw you I smoke where I want. Every body can kiss my ass or my fist there choice. :x

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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby eric » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:05 pm

Setting aside the part about restricting minors from purchasing these and the other regulations about the sale what completely baffles me is the part about not allowing them to be used in the workplace. I'm actually interested in hearing what their argument for this might be. I already get the nanny mentality about the other parts. What is wrong with the use of these things in the workplace? Why isn't that something the employer decides and not the government?
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby ragefather » Sun Jan 29, 2012 8:20 pm

eric wrote:Setting aside the part about restricting minors from purchasing these and the other regulations about the sale what completely baffles me is the part about not allowing them to be used in the workplace. I'm actually interested in hearing what their argument for this might be. I already get the nanny mentality about the other parts. What is wrong with the use of these things in the workplace? Why isn't that something the employer decides and not the government?


And the funny thing is these products have always been illegal for minors to purchase. They are acting like requiring sellers to sell them in packs rather than individually will actually curb minors from purchasing them. If a seller is going to sell one illegally, why would they have a bout of conscious with selling a pack? These minors aren't buying Phillies cause they taste good, they are buying them to smoke weed out of. But these anti-tobacco people havent had much press recently in MA, so they pass this rediculous legislation so people do not forget about them.

Oh and how exactly is an e-cigarette a tobacco product? They would never restrict people from chewing nic gum or wearing a patch. I wonder what would happen if you could get a doctor to sign off on the e-cig as treatment for quitting smoking.
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby Add » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:11 pm

Meh. The eCig manufacturers are reaping what they sowed.

When ecigarettes first came out there was a real question about whether they should be treated like nicotine drugs (like gum and patches) or "natural" nicotine products like cigarettes. The nicotine for gum and patches also comes from tobacco plants but has to adhere to much higher quality and testing standards. eCig manufacturers argued they should be treated more like natural products (to avoid the higher costs of meeting quality standards). Now it looks like they're trying to have their cake and eat it too. I'm sure some "financial lobbying" (American legal system - the best money can buy) will allow them to have it both ways. This is just the politicians in their usual shake-down to make sure they get paid too.

eCigs don't release toxins into the atmosphere in the way that lit cigarettes do, but smokers do exhale toxins (& I hate calling my favourite chemicals "toxins" but I can't ignore scientific data. Mmmmm toxins....) so I can see it's a trickier balance.

With the lower standards of testing, the absorption into the lungs, but lower chemical impurities make eCigs an interesting bridge between traditional tobacco (Yay! Go us!) and (ineffective) NRT. I hope they have a future.

BTW if you scrape the "gunk" from a patch and lick the (very sour) substrate it's possible to get a slight buzz. Worth remembering for long haul flights.
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby cakeanddottle » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:26 pm

well I gotta add and debunk both here

When the FDA lost their court cases to get ecigs defined as a controlled substance, they lumped it in with tobacco products under the Tobacco Control Act of 2010, which essentially gives them the same carte blanc in regulating them as it does with tobacco products.

The main ingredient in eliquid is the main ingredient in asthma inhalers. If that worries you, then I don't know what else to add. Most eliquid contains PG, VG, nicotine and flavoring. The flavoring is generally 3-10% and the flavorings are generally constituted of benign elements that are safe to inhale. There really isn't a downside to these as an alternative to smoking cigarettes, healthwise anyway.
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby KevLa » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:29 pm

Add wrote:...toxins (& I hate calling my favourite chemicals "toxins" but I can't ignore scientific data. Mmmmm toxins....)...

Yes, I see that as the enlightened way :idea: I think it's better to be upfront and open about such things, and not try to hide behind more 'friendly'-sounding labels :)
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby Add » Sun Jan 29, 2012 10:40 pm

(almost anything is safer than smoking tobacco!). But when the one manufacturer's (I'd have to look up which one) product was tested they expressed surprise that their product wasn't as pure as it was supposed to be ("who us? well fancy that!").

Yeah. The main ingredient is PG that "generally recognised as safe" stuff we all whine about when discussing SG! It's not the PG that's in question (cos that's available pure and in bulk). It's the nicotine and flavouring. AKA "the good stuff"
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby ragefather » Sun Jan 29, 2012 11:20 pm

Add wrote:eCigs don't release toxins into the atmosphere in the way that lit cigarettes do, but smokers do exhale toxins (& I hate calling my favourite chemicals "toxins" but I can't ignore scientific data. Mmmmm toxins....) so I can see it's a trickier balance.


What toxins are exhaled? I can seem to find a straight answer except "water vapor". If you are referring to the vapors of PG, VG and PEG, I don't think they are classified as toxins.
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby Add » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:05 am

There's data on PubMed. As a new product there's nowhere near as much data as for regular cigarettes. Other studies have shown variability in manufacture (not surprising for Chinese imports?). I don't want to imply eCigs are anywhere near as "bad" (or good depending on whether you like smoke) as regular cigarettes. I haven't checked but I think it's orders of magnitude different. But nicotine (and excess "flavouring") will be exhaled. Non-smokers will argue that they don't want ANY nicotine.

Don't get me wrong. I think eCigarettes are interesting and have to be 2nd hand safer than regular smoke. We're just back to the questions of absolute vs relative risk (which apply to everything from gun control to MJ).

The variability in quality control is coming back from tests to haunt the manufacturers. This variability wouldn't be allowed for NRT.
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby cakeanddottle » Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:17 am

Being a doctor, I am somewhat qualified to discuss this topic :D

My eliquid website http://vapenstein.com/

My line of eliquids http://want2vape.com/vapenstein-blend-en/
and if you're in the EU, my European distributor http://www.mondosvapo.com/liquidi/e-liquidi-pronti-1/e-liquidi-want2vape.html

I apologize for posting links to a financial concern of mine outside of the self promotion forum, but it is relevant to the conversation. Trust me, I am here for the pipes and tobacco, my vaping pursuits do just fine without me having to spam outside the vaping community. I won't say any more about this because if you are interested all the info you need is at the following links, or you can email my alter ego Dr. Vapenstein through Vapenstein and I will respond regarding ecig related queries. All I'll add is that it worked for me as a lifelong 2 pack a day smoker. My health is immensely improved. My reason for getting into the eliquid business was that none of the stuff was anything like the real deal, so I wanted to create product that a true tobacco lover who had decided to give it up altogether could love. We've been pretty successful if I do say so myself, and no one in the world is making a product anything likes ours.
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby Bob » Mon Jan 30, 2012 9:52 pm

eric wrote:What is wrong with the use of these things in the workplace? Why isn't that something the employer decides and not the government?



Because Liberals in America believe they will create a utopia by managing our lives. They know better than you or I what is best for us.

Here's how it works: the Gov't threatens to pass legislation that cuts the profits of the insurance companies or imposes new regulations. The insurance company is forced to comply. The insurance company tells private businesses they must comply or their premiums will sky rocket. The employer either complies.
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby MrJeff » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:16 pm

At least you can get away with going into the bathroom at work and get your fix while sitting on the toilet or something. Kind of hard to hide a real cigarette, anymore.
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby cakeanddottle » Tue Jan 31, 2012 12:19 pm

yeah I stealth vape in the locker room all the time :D
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby Add » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:59 pm

Damn those liberals and their not wanting to breathe in an addictive chemical at work (nicotine is still exhaled).

And taking your eCigarette into the toilet? Is that the best place to be inhaling deeply?

BTW I'm a hypocrite on this issue. I used to have a smoking office (pipes and cigars) and the smoke was practically viscous. It took a smoking at work ban to get me to stop acting like a selfish ass (so far as tobacco was concerned anyway).

I can grab a reasonably quick smoke on the fire escape at work. The smoke sometimes follows me into the conference room afterwards. My colleagues seem to put up with this, as a slight whiff of pipe smoke is less damaging to heath than an irrational (bordering on psychopathic) Add who's suffering from nicotine withdrawal. :evil:
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby ChesterCopperpot » Thu Feb 02, 2012 5:41 am

I 'smoke' ecigs myself. It's easy to stealth vape, just hold in the vapor for a few seconds. When you breathe out, very little vapor if any.

This whole episode demonstrates the real attitude of anti-smoke fanatics. E-cigs give off no carcinogens, no smoke, and nobody is going to absorb any nicotine from what you exhale. It's mostly a case of 'I don't like it' curbing the rights of others.
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Re: E-cigarettes Banned in Boston Workplaces

Postby barredbenny » Thu Feb 02, 2012 11:03 am

Add wrote:Damn those liberals and their not wanting to breathe in an addictive chemical at work (nicotine is still exhaled).


Okay, perhaps that is the case. But to ban all tobacco products, including snuff, snus and dip? Those have absolutely no negative effects for others.
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