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Anyone following the George Zimmerman trial?

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Anyone following the George Zimmerman trial?

Postby eric » Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:25 pm

It has been a long time since I allowed myself to be caught up in one of these "national stories" or whatever you want to call the news media's chosen drama of the week. But this trial has caught my attention and I am intrigued by it. Not so much the question of guilt or innocence, but the real story, to me, is the reaction, the way it is being reported and commented on, and that sort of thing.

Let me be clear I am not a George Zimmerman fan. I don't think he'll win any awards for wisdom. He's not someone I'd invite to coffee.

But... Best I can tell, and this is before the defense has called one witness - all we've heard from so far are witnesses for the prosecution, reasonable doubt has already been established and then some. My understanding of the law is that the accused is presumed innocent until or unless the prosecution can prove, leaving no room for reasonable doubt, that the accused is guilty.

At this point, the prosecution's best hope is that the jury will forget about applying the law and treat this like a popularity contest.

This death was tragic, it was arguably unnecessary, it was unfortunate, and George Zimmerman is not cool. But none of that should be enough to convict Zimmerman of second degree murder in the state of Florida. None of that proves that he wasn't getting his head bashed against a sidewalk when he fired the gun.
Eric

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Re: Anyone following the George Zimmerman trial?

Postby bearded1 » Sat Jun 29, 2013 7:45 pm

I for one am not following this...on purpose. I despise the way this is being spoon fed to the public, the way the media is skewing this story, the way they are basically trying this case in the court of public opinion and trying to show us what we oughta believe.

They are turning tragic circumstances into a circus side-show attraction just as they did with OJ, Menendez Brothers, and many other high-profile crimes. This is being built up to the point that if he is found innocent, we will have more black riots...if he is found guilty, we will lose even more ground in the battle of being able to protect oneself (regardless of any facts or opinions).

This is not about murder or self-defense anymore, it's been turned into a race thing in my opinion.
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Re: Anyone following the George Zimmerman trial?

Postby eric » Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:58 pm

Lest anyone think bearded is overstating the abuses by the Media, look how Reuters and another organization each headlined the same witness testimony:

I watched that witness testify. Not once did he ever describe any struggle by Trayvon Martin and he essentially identified Martin as the one on top, in the dominant position, attacking Zimmerman.

Talk about spin.

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Re: Anyone following the George Zimmerman trial?

Postby highstump » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:46 pm

I just finished looking over the organ donor thread in here, and it seems while one government does not seem to believe that your organs belong to you after you die, many agencies over here do not believe you have a right to protect those organs while you are still alive either. :?
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Re: Anyone following the George Zimmerman trial?

Postby eric » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:12 pm

highstump wrote:I just finished looking over the organ donor thread in here, and it seems while one government does not seem to believe that your organs belong to you after you die, many agencies over here do not believe you have a right to protect those organs while you are still alive either. :?


I am not a legal expert so I listened to the couple hours of arguments concerning the motion for a directed verdict every bit as a layman, but I did hear both sides and I was surprised the judge ruled against the directed verdict to acquit.

The state has rested its case but failed to present evidence supporting their theory of events. I should say theories because they seem to be floating at least two. They did however call more than enough witnesses (for the prosecution) who delivered evidence supporting the essential structure of Zimmerman's account which has been the same since he was questioned on the scene until now.

So, we do have laws but apparently we have judges and prosecutors willing to bend or ignore them.
Eric

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Re: Anyone following the George Zimmerman trial?

Postby aquaholic » Sat Jul 06, 2013 3:23 pm

I agree with your views on this Eric. Why this case isn't over now is beyond me, it's almost as open and shut as it gets.

In my opinion Zimmerman is a dumbass, but if it shakes out in anything less than an acquittal I don't see how that can be anything but politically/racially motivated :?
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Re: Anyone following the George Zimmerman trial?

Postby eric » Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:10 pm

aquaholic wrote:I agree with your views on this Eric. Why this case isn't over now is beyond me, it's almost as open and shut as it gets.

In my opinion Zimmerman is a dumbass, but if it shakes out in anything less than an acquittal I don't see how that can be anything but politically/racially motivated :?


Before the trial began I figured the state had uncovered some sort of evidence that they never made public. I couldn't come up with any other reason they'd even take this thing to trial.

No one should get me wrong, Martin's death is not something I am gloating over and I do not want to see more similar events. I have never been rooting for Zimmerman so to speak, but I do like it when existing laws are uniformly and consistently applied. I don't think he is a monster either.

As it turns out, the state had no secret evidence. I can't think of anything substantial that came up in the trial that wasn't already on the Wikipedia page. My understanding of the state's burden of proof is they have to come up with evidence that rules out the possibility that any other hypothesis could be true. Instead the state came up with a theory that requires a whole lot of stretches of the imagination to even begin to be plausible. Much less rule out the possibility of the alternate version of events submitted by the defense and supported by state's own witnesses.

You have to believe that wanting, at one time, to be a marshall and catch fugitives, and calling the criminals who'd been burglarizing the neighborhood "effing punks and assholes" amounts to ill will, hatred, and malice toward Martin. That stretch is required just to get the 2nd Degree Murder charge through the door. Then, in one of the most severe failures of logic I think I have ever seen outside of internet discussion boards, the prosecutor argued to the judge that the fact Zimmerman shot Martin was it's own evidence of malice. Apparently circular reasoning isn't cause for a contempt charge. But this is the same guy who essentially said that anyone who has ever had a desire to uphold the law is full of ill-will and hatred. Wouldn't that apply to him as a prosecutor?

People claim, as if it were an undisputed fact, that Zimmerman confronted or initiated contact with Martin at some point after he hung up with the non-emergency dispatcher. The line is that he continued to pursue. The state was unable to produce a shred of evidence that after the dispatcher said "you don't have to do that," and Zimmerman said "okay" that he did.

The lie that the "police ordered Zimmerman not to get out of his car" has been repeated so many times even the defense is repeating it, even after testimony from the dispatcher that the only reason they say that is for liability reasons. In fact, the dispatcher had asked him several times what Martin's location and direction were. Not that following Martin would have been a crime or cause for Martin to act in self-defense.

This whole thing is a train wreck no matter how it turns out.
Eric

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