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Organ Donation

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Organ Donation

Postby Taff » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:30 pm

Guys, have a look at the following link

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-23136965

What do we think? Is it a good thing? I'm not sure - on paper I would say yes, and it will save lives, but the moral issue just won't go away for me (unusual in itself)
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby bearded1 » Tue Jul 02, 2013 12:52 pm

I think this is a bad thing, period. Yes, it's for a good cause, but that does not make it right. I wish more folks would donate, but understand why someone would chose not to. Forcing folks to opt out of everything, instead of making a compelling case for them to join your cause is lazy and presumptuous. Always be looking several moves ahead folks...this move may sound worthy, but giving them consent to "presume" for you in this case will simply empower them to do so again, and again. Soon, they are simply not telling you what you have volunteered for and they control your body and every aspect of your life. Your a slave.
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby Taff » Tue Jul 02, 2013 3:42 pm

A valid argument Paul.

I'm genuinely torn between the obvious advantages - organs much more available - but the prospect of living in a state that presumes ownership over a dead person's organs is frankly terrifying for me. Luckily, we're moving away from Wales in November (never thought I'd see that as "lucky") but it worries me that if this law gets passed the rest of the UK will follow suit, especially if a legal precedent has been set.

Scary times indeed....
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby Dodger » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:11 pm

It does not state if the law will apply only to residents of Wales .
If it applies to visitors and tourists I can see the tourist industry in Wales suffering .
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby Taff » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:22 pm

Dodger wrote:It does not state if the law will apply only to residents of Wales .
If it applies to visitors and tourists I can see the tourist industry in Wales suffering .


Anyone over the age of 18, resident in Wales for more than 12 months - could affect universities?
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby RompinDonkey » Tue Jul 02, 2013 5:33 pm

I can see the concerns that this raises.

To be honest, I really don't care what happens to me after I die. They can have my liver for scientific research (it won't be any good for donation by that time :) ) They can have anything that they need really.

The only problem that I can see is an over zealous surgeon waiting for an organ, and deciding that as I am as good as dead anyway - he'll snatch it.

I see ID cards as a good idea really. With the "chip", information re donation of organs could be stored there.
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby Dodger » Tue Jul 02, 2013 7:58 pm

RompinDonkey wrote:The only problem that I can see is an over zealous surgeon waiting for an organ, and deciding that as I am as good as dead anyway - he'll snatch it.


That is my main concern .Given the scandals that the medical profession has starred in over the past few years (South Staffordshire especially),with no one facing criminal charges or being disbarred ,I have no confidence in their competence ,standards or ethics .
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby ScotsJim » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:00 pm

I am with Paul on this. Whatever next :roll:
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby eric » Tue Jul 02, 2013 8:03 pm

I am an organ donar. I am all for organ donation.

I am not for going down a road where it is presumed the state or whatever has ownership of my body, alive or dead. Organ donation should be a definite decision.
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby Taff » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:11 pm

Well they have just voted in favour of passing this bill... This is the reason I voted no to devolution.....

Yes we can opt out, but really think I should have to opt in rather than have a presumption... Scary prospect.
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby RompinDonkey » Tue Jul 02, 2013 9:23 pm

Dodger wrote:
RompinDonkey wrote:The only problem that I can see is an over zealous surgeon waiting for an organ, and deciding that as I am as good as dead anyway - he'll snatch it.


That is my main concern .Given the scandals that the medical profession has starred in over the past few years (South Staffordshire especially),with no one facing criminal charges or being disbarred ,I have no confidence in their competence ,standards or ethics .


What went on in that South Staffs Hospital will run and run I think. That hospital should not be confused with the North Staffs hospital. The North Staffs hospital, is a model for good care.
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby Dodger » Tue Jul 02, 2013 10:19 pm

Taff wrote:Well they have just voted in favour of passing this bill... This is the reason I voted no to devolution.....

Yes we can opt out, but really think I should have to opt in rather than have a presumption... Scary prospect.

What annoys me about the vote is that the Labour Party had the whip on this measure ,while every other party had a fee vote .
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby RompinDonkey » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:09 am

Dodger wrote:What annoys me about the vote is that the Labour Party had the whip on this measure ,while every other party had a fee vote .


What annoys me is the fact that we have Whips.

Didn't we elect our MPs to represent us in parliament? Not to have Gov't whips telling them how to vote.

Democracy ? I don't think so.
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby Frizz » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:14 am

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Re: Organ Donation

Postby bearded1 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 1:11 am

RompinDonkey wrote:
Dodger wrote:What annoys me about the vote is that the Labour Party had the whip on this measure ,while every other party had a fee vote .


What annoys me is the fact that we have Whips.

Didn't we elect our MPs to represent us in parliament? Not to have Gov't whips telling them how to vote.

Democracy ? I don't think so.


Without distracting from the conversation, can someone give me the short explanation of a whip and what they do? As an American, I admit to being embarrassingly naive when it comes to foreign political systems and how they are run. :oops:
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby Dodger » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:41 pm

It comes from the foxhunting term whipper in ,which is a man who controls the pack of hounds.

In Parliament all parties have a Whips office the members of which try to get the MPs of its party to follow the party line when it comes to a vote .
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby Taff » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:46 pm

Dodger wrote:It comes from the foxhunting term whipper in ,which is a man who controls the pack of hounds.

In Parliament all parties have a Whips office the members of which try to get the MPs of its party to follow the party line when it comes to a vote .


Which kind of makes a mockery of Democracy really doesn't it!!

I never knew that, Dodger. I knew what they did but never knew how they got the name - I always thought that they whipped other MPs into shape.. Maybe they should!
Still, I think a topic such as that should have gone to a free vote, and actually I don't think the Welsh Assembly should be allowed that kind of power especially as the organs harvested as a result of this could go anywhere in the UK...
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby bearded1 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:27 pm

Dodger wrote:It comes from the foxhunting term whipper in ,which is a man who controls the pack of hounds.

In Parliament all parties have a Whips office the members of which try to get the MPs of its party to follow the party line when it comes to a vote .


Thank you!
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby Dodger » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:02 pm

Now that they have decided that a person or his/her family has no automatic right over the body after death ,unless giving written notice ,the next twisted but logical step is that you have no right over the living body .Which could mean the harvesting of organs from the living .

I know this is over the top but when you start on a slippery slope who knows where it will end up .
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Re: Organ Donation

Postby acaciavet » Wed Jul 03, 2013 8:15 pm

If I could get a writen Guarantee that a politician or a member of a politicians family would not get an organ I would sighn up.But the way the USA has srewed us over cant take the chance i might save the enemy. Sorry to sound like a cold heartd bastrd but thats the way i feel. All the good Politicians are in the cemetery! :evil:

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