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Did you Vote?

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Postby Bob » Mon Nov 10, 2014 7:55 pm

Kev, if that's the way it is in the UK that is amazing. In America, there are many laws already in place that restrict gun sales to criminals, require gun registration in some states, etc. The bad guys here don't care about the laws though. They get guns illegally and use them in crimes. There are way too many guns in this country now to eliminate them or keep them out of the hands of the bad guys. The only defense now is to have a gun to protect yourself. It's been proven that crime rates here drop when more people carry guns. It's a fact, sad as it may sound. It's the situation we are now in.

With that said, this is not a country of rampant crime everywhere where we live in fear. The inner cities are much much worse than than most places and by far, most of the population does not live in big cities contrary to what you might see on tv or in the media.

And yes, I voted and regardless of the problems I still consider it a privilege.
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Re: Did you Vote?

Postby noodle » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:18 pm

acaciavet wrote:Next point In any of those situations how would my lot have been improved by owning and carrying a gun?"You could have shot back! I am sure you read the story of the Muslim jerk cutting of an Innocent lady head in Oklahoma? Well he could have killed more if it had not been for another employee packing heat! Subject scum is now enjoying his 72 Virgins! I will take good old USA justice any day over what you Europeans have!


And that isn't justice. To kill someone who has killed without any legal process is not justice in any way shape or form.
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Re: Did you Vote?

Postby KevLa » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:46 pm

noodle wrote:And that isn't justice. To kill someone who has killed without any legal process is not justice in any way shape or form.

I agree with you, Noodle, although I go one step further:-
If it is unacceptable to kill a person, then it is unacceptable to kill a person even if, following a legal process, said person determined to have killed another person. I am fundamentally against capital punishment.
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Re: Did you Vote?

Postby noodle » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:53 pm

KevLa wrote:
noodle wrote:And that isn't justice. To kill someone who has killed without any legal process is not justice in any way shape or form.

I agree with you, Noodle, although I go one step further:-
If it is unacceptable to kill a person, then it is unacceptable to kill a person even if, following a legal process, said person determined to have killed another person. I am fundamentally against capital punishment.


I'm not but I'm not pro capital punishment either. Some crimes are beyond redemption although I'm glad we don't really have it currently
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Re:

Postby KevLa » Mon Nov 10, 2014 8:58 pm

Bob wrote:Kev, if that's the way it is in the UK that is amazing. In America, there are many laws already in place that restrict gun sales to criminals, require gun registration in some states, etc. The bad guys here don't care about the laws though. They get guns illegally and use them in crimes. There are way too many guns in this country now to eliminate them or keep them out of the hands of the bad guys. The only defense now is to have a gun to protect yourself. It's been proven that crime rates here drop when more people carry guns. It's a fact, sad as it may sound. It's the situation we are now in...

It doesn't seem all that amazing to me, Bob. I think that part of the problem in the U.S.A. is that guns have been so very available for so very long, that there are just loads of guns knocking about. Over here, there are much fewer guns, and they are much more difficult for the general public (law-abiding or no) to get ahold of. Perhaps it is just too late to do anything about it in the U.S.A., tragically :(
...With that said, this is not a country of rampant crime everywhere where we live in fear. The inner cities are much much worse than than most places and by far, most of the population does not live in big cities contrary to what you might see on tv or in the media...

I don't watch television or read the newspapers, so I don't think my idea of the U.S.A. is being coloured that way. One can't help hearing about classrooms full of schoolchildren being machine-gunned, though...
...And yes, I voted and regardless of the problems I still consider it a privilege.

Fair enough :)
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Re: Did you Vote?

Postby Bob » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:21 am

noodle wrote:
acaciavet wrote:Next point In any of those situations how would my lot have been improved by owning and carrying a gun?"You could have shot back! I am sure you read the story of the Muslim jerk cutting of an Innocent lady head in Oklahoma? Well he could have killed more if it had not been for another employee packing heat! Subject scum is now enjoying his 72 Virgins! I will take good old USA justice any day over what you Europeans have!


And that isn't justice. To kill someone who has killed without any legal process is not justice in any way shape or form.


Chuck isn't talking about justice. He talking about saving your life when it is in mortal danger. You would not shoot someone for holding a gun. You would be forced to shoot him if you believed he was going to kill you. As far as the Oklahoma incident, the terrorist was killing people and was shot to save innocent lives. These examples have noting to do with justice or taking justice into your own hands.
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Re: Did you Vote?

Postby acaciavet » Tue Nov 11, 2014 12:25 am

I don't know how to Reply to Noodle,I sure would not want to be in bad situation with him. If some Mod wants to lock this thread feel free.I just might say something I will regret! I am through with this nonsense!
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Re: Did you Vote?

Postby noodle » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:04 am

acaciavet wrote:I don't know how to Reply to Noodle,I sure would not want to be in bad situation with him. If some Mod wants to lock this thread feel free.I just might say something I will regret! I am through with this nonsense!

If you have a read you will see ive got through quite a few
Not to mention ive been stabbed three times bottled .....still here though
Its only nonsense because you cant concieve what civilised society is about. What really strikes me as odd though is branding a seemingly liberal politician a nazi when nazis were more in.line with the way you view the world. Dont like something or feel scared shoot it
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Re: Did you Vote?

Postby noodle » Tue Nov 11, 2014 1:24 am

I cant edit my post but flet the need to add

If I lived in the usa id probably have 3 ak's a case of grenades etc tucked under the bed shotgun in the car etc
Im trying to get across we dont have guns and as a consequence I dont own one so in every violent situation ive been in which growing up where I did was quite a few guns have rarely come into play. If they had id have been dead before I turned 18. The fact im not speaks volumes.

I dont buy the classroom thing we still get that all it takes is a .22 rimfire and a shotgun both available over here. It wasnt that long ago I was looking at getting my firearms cert to go hunting .
I think the difference is the availability of thungs like hand guns cheap things like mach 10's or whatever they are called that is where the problem lies.
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Re: Did you Vote?

Postby Bob » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:31 am

noodle wrote:
Not to mention ive been stabbed three times bottled .....still here though
Its only nonsense because you cant concieve what civilised society is about. What really strikes me as odd though is branding a seemingly liberal politician a nazi when nazis were more in.line with the way you view the world. Dont like something or feel scared shoot it


First, I guess it's ok for you to be stabbed three times and shot a couple of times. That's what you call a civilized society? I personally don't know anyone that's been stabbed or shot in our "uncivilized society." I'm not trying to be a jerk. I just don't understand your reasoning. It doesn't make any sense.

Again, your comment, "Dont like something or feel scared shoot it", is ridiculous. If you do that you get life in prison. That's not the way it is here. Honest people have guns for sport, to protect their lives, and keep our Gov't in check. Honest citizens are not going around shooting people trying to be judge and jury. They only shoot if someone is going to stab them or shoot them ... but I guess you'd rather take a knife or two rather than protect yourself. Ok.

Finally, most honest people here that own guns rarely even take them out. They lock them up in a vault of some sort 99.9% of the time. They have them in their bedroom in case there is a break in and their family is threatened. Those that conceal carry are a very, very small percentage of gun owners. Believe it or not, most gun owners only use them at the shooting range for fun. They go boom and it's fun to try and shoot well. :)
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Re: Did you Vote?

Postby noodle » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:36 pm

Nope bob it's not but violence is everywhere. You said it yourself the inner cities are different they are here too look at were I grew up in Liverpool and Manchester. Neither are nice places but then again none are anything like as bad as la Detroit etc
Never used a knife in anger me so not sure where that comes from I also refuse point blank to be intimidated and bullied and being able to deal with people who try that kind of thing is useful. I'm not violent or aggresive but when it lands on your doorstep then you have two choices to make hide is one them do that and it carries on
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Re: Did you Vote?

Postby noodle » Wed Nov 12, 2014 2:57 pm

How come I can't edit posts in here?
I should have added to the above post a former career put me into lots of positions where conflict was likely
Inebriated people were responsible for many of the above
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Re: Did you Vote?

Postby Bob » Wed Nov 12, 2014 11:32 pm

Noodle, I'll check to see why you can't edit posts here. I can but maybe that's because I have other privileges.

Does anyone else have that problem? Please let me know.


P.S. I do respect your opinions and I hope I didn't come across otherwise. BTW, I have a 800 lumen LED flashlight I built which is a pretty effective defensive weapon itself.
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Re: Did you Vote?

Postby KevLa » Fri Nov 14, 2014 11:54 pm

Bob wrote:Noodle, I'll check to see why you can't edit posts here. I can but maybe that's because I have other privileges.
...Does anyone else have that problem? Please let me know.

I've not been able to edit any posts in the Debates section since rediscovering it, and signing up to use it. I presumed it was a deliberate choice by 'the powers that be'.
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