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FDA Gripe

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FDA Gripe

Postby viper37 » Sun Jul 03, 2016 12:29 pm

I'm sure everybody here in the U.S has heard about the new FDA regulations on all tobacco and vaping products. I just got the new Pipes and Cigars catalog and they discontinued the make your own blend because creating an new blend would be costly. Also said a lot of there products are in jeopardy and inventory could be greatly reduced. Any tobacco products after 2007 will need approval which includes costly fees. Just another way for FDA to get paid and impose their will (MHO). I'm so tired of having someone telling me what I can have so they can make a profit. I'm a grown man who chooses to smoke. I did my part and sent a letter to my congressman. Don't know what good that will do. I don't want to get all worked up about this it won't do any good. It just aggrevates me they can't leave us smokers alone. A lot of us smoke our pipes at home. Anyway that's off my chest. I hope everyone here has a good day and great smokes.

Peace,
Bill
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby Geo3rge » Sun Jul 03, 2016 1:41 pm

Good comments. It's the way of things now, and I reckon it will be a global phenomenon soon. Well done for informing your congressman. It's not just smokers who will suffer; as you rightly indicate, retailers, makers and blenders will all feel the various impacts.
We ought to be able to enjoy our chosen activity in peace. But so many levels and variations of the same theme are coalescing now that none of us can escape them.
I'm planning to build up my tobacco cellar as much as I can. I've plenty of pipes and won't need too many more of those. And if trends to ban smoking for all those born around 2000 (a recent Scandinavian proposal and likely to be studied with great interest by other countries) come to fruition, then us older ones might just have a little more time to indulge.
That said, I hope that you too can enjoy a few good pipefuls today...
Steve
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby KevinM » Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:07 am

Information I have gotten on this issue indicates this action was actually lobbied by a tobacco company. Yup, that's right. A tobacco company. The same company that lost tons of retail options when a major drug store chain in the US stopped selling tobacco products in their stores. This is an effort of said company to retain their margin on the market. Not only will this action only allow tobacco products developed prior to 2007, but it will also restrict sales of tobacco in the packages the manufacturers sell to the retailers. In other words, if your local B&M only gets a tobacco in five pound bags, it cannot jar that package and sell in smaller quantities. It can only resell the five pound bag. This will eliminate the bulk tobacco market by retailers as well as homemade blends by local tobacconists. The established tinned blends will not be impacted or the old OTC blends that have been around for eons. Smart bulk tobacco companies will probably start packaging their grandfathered blends in smaller packages only, probably one pound at most. Any new blends you have been enjoying released prior to 2007 will probably go away.
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby Hermit » Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:17 am

Well, it's good to know that it'll keep cigarettes out of the hands of the kiddies if we have to give up Embarcadero.
Brainless politicians. :twisted:



How is this fiasco supposed to work?
What date is this effective?
What happens to stuff already on the shelves or in stock at websites?
It's baffling and frustrating that anyone thinks this is a good idea.

I'm glad I have a massive stash, but I'll have to add a few pounds of certain blends.
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby KevLa » Mon Jul 04, 2016 2:09 am

The big cigarette manufacturers will benefit massively from these new regulations, and they know it. Too many people are giving up cigarettes for vaping, and they can't have that! I call shenanigans! :x
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby Geo3rge » Tue Jul 05, 2016 2:58 pm

That word 'cellar' keeps popping into mind...
Just received a large order from a UK online store and I've put another one in from a European company. I'm stashing these away in an old case (and "in case" as well, forgive the pun) at the moment.
Do enjoy those wonderful pipes and tobaccos that you all have. I wish you many, many pleasant and delightful smokes for as long as we have got...
Steve
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby ratatosk » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:11 am

The bottom line is described here http://www.fda.gov/ForConsumers/ConsumerUpdates/ucm506676.htm

My take on it is that manufacturers have 2 years from August 8 to sell off stuff and another year after that to seek approvals for any products that "were not on the market as of February 15, 2007."

What does that mean if a product existed then, but disappeared from the US market for x years before it was introduced again? I am thinking about things like Capstan. Or what about things like all of the Dunhills that disappeared for a bit because of distributor problems a while back?

What it does mean is that around the time that Cuban cigar imports will become legal at last, they will not go anywhere unless the Cubans want to go through a lot of bullshit, hence the much discussed premium cigar exception that did not make it into the reg.

So if you like any of GL Pease's recent blends like Gaslight, I reckon that you can expect prices to rise as you buy it up and cannot expect it to be around in the future because of the cost of regulatory compliance.

This does smell like a Marlboro Red rule that is intended to kill off vape competition while creating other chaos. Hard times, but I will just resume my monthly buys until the dust settles, most of the blends that I like to smoke have been on the market for 50-100 years in one form or another.
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby KevLa » Mon Jul 11, 2016 12:54 pm

At least five lawsuits have already been filed against the F.D.A. over various aspects of these new regulations :D
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby viper37 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:59 pm

Just thought I would share the response from the members of congress I sent letters to. In short they support the FDA regulations of all tobacco and vapor products. Told me retailers and manufacturers need to be held accountable. All for the protection of the children.
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby KevinM » Mon Jul 11, 2016 9:38 pm

Children are not going to be protected by these new FDA regulations. Children are only going to be protected by enforcement of minority laws. If a business or adult is caught enabling the under aged, then stiffer penalties should be enforced IMO.
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby viper37 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:14 pm

Keven, I agree with you 100%. I said it before I believe it's all about money. To justify it they put the "Save the Children" stamp on it. I really don't see how the new regulations are going to help. All my opinion of course.
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby KevLa » Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:24 pm

The regulations would result in more suffering and death, not less, by harming the vaping industry and thereby helping the cigarette industry.
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby KevLa » Thu Sep 15, 2016 9:13 am

The following are conclusions the veracity of which I am either already convinced of, or becoming increasingly so:-

1. The profits of large, cigarette-manufacturing companies ("Big Cigs") are suffering from the increased popularity of vaping products.
2. Big Cigs have significant influence of some kind over the F.D.A.
3. In order to remove vaping products (or move it under the control of Big Cigs), F.D.A. must have power to regulate it.
4. In order to have power to regulate vaping products, the F.D.A. must be able to deem them to be tobacco products.
5. In order to deem vaping products (i.e. non-tobacco products) to be tobacco products, all products that actually contain tobacco (e.g. pipe tobacco, cigars) must be subjected to the same regulations.

Scientific evidence strongly suggests that vaping is a far less unhealthy alternative to smoking tobacco cigarettes. If the F.D.A. was trying to protect public health, as it claims, it would not be trying to regulate vaping products in such a way that only Big Cigs could afford to sell them.

In order to daub vaping products black, the F.D.A. must tar pipe tobacco and cigars with the same brush. There is no way they could ever move the former under their control without doing the same with the latter. It is a case of all or nothing.

So, this isn't about health, and it isn't even about pipe-smoking or cigar-smoking...

"'It's about money, Dick. It's about... money, Dick. It's about money! It's about money, Dick! It's about mon-ey, Dick! Money!'"
-Samuel Bicke, in The Assassination of Richard Nixon.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2016/05/12/the-fdas-deadly-censorship-of-lifesaving-e-cigarette-information/#6b14e7012b6b
Last edited by KevLa on Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby Geo3rge » Thu Sep 15, 2016 6:46 pm

You have made a strong point, Kev.
The following are personal thoughts. I make no allusion to any inside knowledge or evidence.
One of the considerations with regulators and those responsible is indeed, I believe, the economics of the thing. How much can be saved in certain areas?
It's possible, though I have no direct proof, that 'soft' targets, such as smokers, who can be deemed to be 'self-harmers' and, as such, could be 'legitimately' targeted, are the reason, or one of the reasons, behind all this sudden and frenetic activity.
A UK Hospital trust recently stated it would not operate on smokers or obese people and there was a strong hint of economics behind it all. The NHS itself then had to step in and retreat a little on this, stating that this local trust decision is not compatible with the spirit of the NHS. But it clearly shows the thinking behind some of the managerial authorities who make, or who want to make, decisions.

I can see a point on health issues. We all can.

These recent acts appear punitive, heavy-handed and ill-thought-out.
I am concerned that it may be symptomatic of a more authoritarian approach to management and decision-making where the general public are basically treated as 'masses' and as 'targets' to be won.
Individually, my health workers, whom I see every now and then, are great people, but they clearly have a common agenda and I do believe that the long term goal, set by someone, somewhere, at some point in time, is to eradicate smoking altogether.
And I also believe that it will be only a matter of time before smoking as an activity is declared illegal by law (I understand New Zealand has already made a statement concerning its aims on this).

I am not going to bang my drum about maintaining my individual right to smoke.
Instead, I am simply going to continue enjoying my pipes in peace, in my own home and in my own time. I will savour these beautiful works of art, both pipe and tobacco, for as long as I am able to.

So, ladies and gentlemen, I wish you the joy of the pipe. May it keep you happy, sane and content in our rather fractious and unsettling world.
Indeed, I wish you all Happy Smoking.
Steve
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby PipeStoke » Fri Sep 16, 2016 9:16 am

Beautifully spoken as always, Steve.
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby KevLa » Sat Sep 17, 2016 12:17 pm

Geo3rge wrote:You have made a strong point, Kev...

Thanks, mate! :) I might seem cynical, but I am attempting only to be realistic rather than allowing what I would like to believe to colour my judgment. The resulting conclusions might not be comforting ones, but at least I can take solace in the fact that I am being as honest with myself as I know how :D
...The following are personal thoughts. I make no allusion to any inside knowledge or evidence...

Ditto here, of course :)
...One of the considerations with regulators and those responsible is indeed, I believe, the economics of the thing. How much can be saved in certain areas?
It's possible, though I have no direct proof, that 'soft' targets, such as smokers, who can be deemed to be 'self-harmers' and, as such, could be 'legitimately' targeted, are the reason, or one of the reasons, behind all this sudden and frenetic activity.
A UK Hospital trust recently stated it would not operate on smokers or obese people and there was a strong hint of economics behind it all. The NHS itself then had to step in and retreat a little on this, stating that this local trust decision is not compatible with the spirit of the NHS. But it clearly shows the thinking behind some of the managerial authorities who make, or who want to make, decisions...

Personally, I think what the FDA is doing is about making money, not saving it. But then, I suppose, cutting costs amounts to the same thing as increasing profits anyway, doesn't it?
...I can see a point on health issues. We all can...

Yes, I think most of us can agree that there are health risks associated with smoking; heavy risks for regular cigarette smokers, and significantly lighter risks for regular pipe or cigar smokers. It seems that the risks of regular vaping are minimal compared to any kind of smoking...
http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?/sites/jacobsullum/2016/04/28/royal-college-of-physicians-says-e-cigarettes-can-prevent-almost-all-the-harm-from-smoking/&toURL=http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacobsullum/2016/04/28/royal-college-of-physicians-says-e-cigarettes-can-prevent-almost-all-the-harm-from-smoking/&refURL=https://www.google.co.uk/&referrer=https://www.google.co.uk/
...These recent acts appear punitive, heavy-handed and ill-thought-out...

To me, these recent acts appear profit-driven, deliberately all-encompassing, and very well thought-out...
...I am concerned that it may be symptomatic of a more authoritarian approach to management and decision-making where the general public are basically treated as 'masses' and as 'targets' to be won...

The general public have been treated that way for a very, very long time. It's just becoming easier and easier for the powers-that-be to get away with it.
...Individually, my health workers, whom I see every now and then, are great people, but they clearly have a common agenda and I do believe that the long term goal, set by someone, somewhere, at some point in time, is to eradicate smoking altogether.
And I also believe that it will be only a matter of time before smoking as an activity is declared illegal by law (I understand New Zealand has already made a statement concerning its aims on this)...

So long as the rich and powerful can draw more net profit from permitting smoking (and vaping) than they can by banning it, it will continue to be permitted. As soon as banning it becomes more profitable, it will be banned. As to the statements they make, those have to be profitable, too. They don't have to be true, though! ;)
...I am not going to bang my drum about maintaining my individual right to smoke.
Instead, I am simply going to continue enjoying my pipes in peace, in my own home and in my own time. I will savour these beautiful works of art, both pipe and tobacco, for as long as I am able to...

It is likely that I will continue merely to sit and smoke, too. Sadly, quietly enjoying our freedom while it lasts does nothing to protect the continuation of said freedom. And those that would profit from impinging on that freedom, know this very well.
...So, ladies and gentlemen, I wish you the joy of the pipe. May it keep you happy, sane and content in our rather fractious and unsettling world.
Indeed, I wish you all Happy Smoking.
Steve

Thanks, my friend! I, too, hope all of my friends on here remain happy and sane, though I advise them to be wary of remaining too content... :idea:
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby KevLa » Sat Sep 17, 2016 1:09 pm

More food for thought, and this video was published nearly one year ago:-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xpgT2NeY7A

Incidentally, in case anybody is wondering, I choose to satisfy my addiction to the drug nicotine exclusively through pipe-smoking. I do not, and have never, vaped (except from trying a few puffs on my friend's vapouriser, out of curiosity) :)_,~
Last edited by KevLa on Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby Geo3rge » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:21 am

As always, Kev, eruditely and concisely spoken.
I suppose we could argue this case forever.
My own conclusions and aims are to build up stock as much as I am able, to enjoy the pipe for as long as I can and to enjoy connections with others (yourself included) in a bid to maintain this tradition.
I'll wish you all some great pipes today.
Steve
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby KevLa » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:17 am

Thanks, Steve. I certainly don't see this as an argument, just a friendly discussion and sharing of opinions :D
Yeah, stocking up continues to be a very good idea, I agree! Long may we pipe-smokers prevail! :)_,~
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Re: FDA Gripe

Postby KevLa » Tue May 02, 2017 10:45 am

I've just read that the Cole-Bishop Amendment is, as of yesterday, dead :(
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