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Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby nak » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:23 am

ChuckMac wrote:E-bay abounds with Wellington's now. If I had some cash I'd get one before they're all gone. Seems the small one is rare, the mediums are plentiful now and there are several of the big ones available for the lucky "winner" of the auctions. Me? I don't that kind of luck or the cash............ (SNIP) ...........

........................................
Oh well. Life's a bitch and then you die but sometimes important people go first and then it's even more of a bitch. J.M. was a Marine and taught me to shoot an M1 the right way. You know what the right way to shoot an M1 is? The Marine way. :D

You have more gumption than I did. You took on a hard one. I have no idea how they get the mottling. I was told that you can "spot wax" the stummel after you boil the rim and then expose it to a concentrated smoke stream while moving the pipe around in the stream of smoke. Maybe...I dunno. I have a Peterson that's mottled but it has no black at the rim and the damned thing has already been waxed. Once waxed twice screwed. Like I said I don't have the formula for the oil. We were boiling the rim in an oil concoction of J.M.'s. I have no idea what was in it but once when I asked he said "the whale forgives and the rest is dear" so I suspect that whale oil may have been one of the oils.
I'd have no idea how to burn one. With my luck I'd crack the pipe or burn part of it away and be SOL. Oh well.



I couldn't agree more about the Wellingtons. Back when I was looking few people (unless they were "Real Pipesters") even knew what they were. They could be found, but it was difficult. This was my experience at the time. They have definitely become accessible now. I can see that this was a much more serious undertaking for you than it was for me. I could be wrong, but it seems as though you were attempting to make almost an exact match. Nothing wrong there, as I have been an artist all my life and mostly a "perfectionist".

On the WDC Van Cleef is smoking a Medium as far as I can see. The band is rounded and the stem is . well, - medium. I do like the 9 1/2 inch you have shown here. It is very cool. (Another PAD)........... Oh, as to the "New Ones", do you have any idea who is now making them? I was under the impression they went out of business.

Unfortunately, when it comes to Meers, they are kind of like "Fingerprints". They are pipes and no two smoke exactly like, or color alike. For me the trick was finding a half bent billiard, no bands or decorations, a vintage yellow stem and a real smoked black top. In that I succeeded. In fact, if you look at Altinok's pipe, which is absolutely brilliant on the coloring, his Shank is actually a little too thick for a perfect match against Van Cleef's. Van Cleef's is level with the stem. Not only is coloring an Art, but as you have suggested, it is definitely a science as well. I can't tell you how many articles, by how many Artists I have read. Each claiming something else.

To get that black rim, (this was from a Carver), I had to melt Carnauba Wax in a tin and dip small pieces of rag in it and quickly wrap a thin layer around the edge of the bowl. This was then set on fire. Don't wait for the wax to burn all away, but you kind of have to have a feel for when it's enough - - - like 10, 15 seconds or so? Then blow it out and let cool. Unwrap. Repeat. ........... And so on until it's where you want it. (Needless to say do not keep your stem in while doing this). I had mine in a small vise with rags or you can tape something else in the shank so you can move it a bit. . Make sure to have nothing around that will burn or catch fire. (It's hard to blow out). The weird thing is, as you smoke the pipe this effect lessons a little bit, and you may have to repeat (it's not an easy process).

I also smeared melted Carnauba Wax on the rest of the pipe and heated with a Hot-Air gun and lit the bottom on fire briefly with rags as well. It is still a work in progress, and I may try that Mottled thing in a similar manner. (You actually gave me some good ideas - thank you).

I am sorry to hear about J.M. and his Son, they sound like fine people. It's a shame what happens to the best of folks. A sad ending to a nice group project. It's funny you mention the M1, I have been a "Hand-Gunner" all my life with little Rifle experience. I first started buying some rifles about 6 years ago and the very first two I purchased was an US M1 30 Cal Carbine and an M1 Garand, The 30 Cal was an IBM from 1944 and the Garand was a 1954 Springfield. (I'm sure you know these guns use to be a dime a dozen in Army and Navy Stores back in the day), but man, they go for some serious dollars now. These two were in beautiful shape and I bought them in Honor of my Dad who served in the European Theater of Operations. Anyway - babbling here................ If I can add anything to this coloration I'll re-post.

Oh, and englanddave - That is some well opinionated old article on Meerschaums! I saved it to disk. There is actually some good info there.............. and also some information that has changed with the times. I pick and pull from where I can. Thanks for sharing!
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby acaciavet » Sun Apr 08, 2012 1:01 pm

This months Pipe Collector references this very topic.

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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby nak » Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:12 pm

acaciavet wrote:This months Pipe Collector references this very topic.

Up Spirits
Chuck



Thanks so much for the info............. I hadn't known about that magazine (Gosh I feel like a newbie) -- Correct me if I am wrong but here is where you would sign up:

http://www.naspc.org/newsletter.htm

And here is more INFO on it:

http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/pipe-clubs/north-american-society-of-pipe-collectors/

Is this correct? - - I will be joining this week!! - Thanks Again!
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby aquaholic » Sun Apr 08, 2012 7:19 pm

That's it nak, heck of a news lettter too for 18 bucks ;)
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby ChuckMac » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:58 am

nak wrote:
I couldn't agree more about the Wellingtons. Back when I was looking few people (unless they were "Real Pipesters") even knew what they were. They could be found, but it was difficult. This was my experience at the time. They have definitely become accessible now. I can see that this was a much more serious undertaking for you than it was for me. I could be wrong, but it seems as though you were attempting to make almost an exact match. Nothing wrong there, as I have been an artist all my life and mostly a "perfectionist".
I've always been involved with art in one form or another. These days I'm too shaky though due to some serious nerve damage. I'd drive myself crazy if I tried to do anything perfect. I made myself a new lock pick yesterday and scared hell out of myself once with the grinder and that narrow bit of metal.

On the WDC Van Cleef is smoking a Medium as far as I can see. The band is rounded and the stem is . well, - medium. I do like the 9 1/2 inch you have shown here. It is very cool. (Another PAD)........... Oh, as to the "New Ones", do you have any idea who is now making them? I was under the impression they went out of business.
Yup, that's a medium. He lived in Oxnard when I was stationed in Hueneme (just a few miles down the road). He bought his baccy at the Tinder Box in the mall. He once said that he smoked his Wellington on location because it wasn't as expensive as his Peterson and wouldn't hurt so much if he dropped it. I didn't know he lived so close or I would have hung around that Tinder Box like halitosis on a drunk! I don't know who makes the Wellies these days (no, my British friends, I don't mean the boots). I'll see if I can find anything about them.

Unfortunately, when it comes to Meers, they are kind of like "Fingerprints". They are pipes and no two smoke exactly like, or color alike. For me the trick was finding a half bent billiard, no bands or decorations, a vintage yellow stem and a real smoked black top. In that I succeeded. In fact, if you look at Altinok's pipe, which is absolutely brilliant on the coloring, his Shank is actually a little too thick for a perfect match against Van Cleef's. Van Cleef's is level with the stem. Not only is coloring an Art, but as you have suggested, it is definitely a science as well. I can't tell you how many articles, by how many Artists I have read. Each claiming something else.
You hit so many nails on the heads in that para that all I can do is agree totally.

To get that black rim, (this was from a Carver), I had to melt Carnauba Wax in a tin and dip small pieces of rag in it and quickly wrap a thin layer around the edge of the bowl. This was then set on fire. Don't wait for the wax to burn all away, but you kind of have to have a feel for when it's enough - - - like 10, 15 seconds or so? Then blow it out and let cool. Unwrap. Repeat. ........... And so on until it's where you want it. (Needless to say do not keep your stem in while doing this). I had mine in a small vise with rags or you can tape something else in the shank so you can move it a bit. . Make sure to have nothing around that will burn or catch fire. (It's hard to blow out). The weird thing is, as you smoke the pipe this effect lessons a little bit, and you may have to repeat (it's not an easy process).
When you used the term burn in your other post I knew it'd be some serious undertaking. I can see that you're a man of infinite patience. Good luck with anything else you do to that pipe. Seems like it would be pretty scary from here on out. One screw up and it's the ball game. I'm not suggesting that what you have done so was wasn't pretty scary. Please don't think that. I get the willies just thinking about it. Uh, in a past post I left the formula for a glue for meerschaum (one teaspoon of egg white to a stick of white school chalk. You can try to match color by adding some colored chalk to the white.) I hope neither of us ever needs the glue. I gave a friend a meer, he dropped it, glued it back together using this glue and is still smoking the pipe today.

I also smeared melted Carnauba Wax on the rest of the pipe and heated with a Hot-Air gun and lit the bottom on fire briefly with rags as well. It is still a work in progress, and I may try that Mottled thing in a similar manner. (You actually gave me some good ideas - thank you).
You're welcome and thank you for all the info that you've shared here.

I am sorry to hear about J.M. and his Son, they sound like fine people. It's a shame what happens to the best of folks. A sad ending to a nice group project. It's funny you mention the M1, I have been a "Hand-Gunner" all my life with little Rifle experience. I first started buying some rifles about 6 years ago and the very first two I purchased was an US M1 30 Cal Carbine and an M1 Garand, The 30 Cal was an IBM from 1944 and the Garand was a 1954 Springfield. (I'm sure you know these guns use to be a dime a dozen in Army and Navy Stores back in the day), but man, they go for some serious dollars now. These two were in beautiful shape and I bought them in Honor of my Dad who served in the European Theater of Operations. Anyway - babbling here................ If I can add anything to this coloration I'll re-post.
Coloration to the meer or your thumb? In the service I saw a few cases of M1 thumb. You familiar with that? Fast bolt, slow thumb?

Oh, and englanddave - That is some well opinionated old article on Meerschaums! I saved it to disk. There is actually some good info there.............. and also some information that has changed with the times. I pick and pull from where I can. Thanks for sharing!
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby nak » Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:43 am

ChuckMac wrote:
nak wrote:
I couldn't agree more about the Wellingtons. Back when I was looking few people (unless they were "Real Pipesters") even knew what they were. They could be found, but it was difficult. This was my experience at the time. They have definitely become accessible now. I can see that this was a much more serious undertaking for you than it was for me. I could be wrong, but it seems as though you were attempting to make almost an exact match. Nothing wrong there, as I have been an artist all my life and mostly a "perfectionist".
I've always been involved with art in one form or another. These days I'm too shaky though due to some serious nerve damage. I'd drive myself crazy if I tried to do anything perfect. I made myself a new lock pick yesterday and scared hell out of myself once with the grinder and that narrow bit of metal. [color=#0040BF]..............................................................SNIP ............................................ (You actually gave me some good ideas - thank you).
You're welcome and thank you for all the info that you've shared here.

I am sorry to hear about J.M. and his Son, they sound like fine people. It's a shame what happens to the best of folks. A sad ending to a nice group project. It's funny you mention the M1, I have been a "Hand-Gunner" all my life with little Rifle experience. I first started buying some rifles about 6 years ago and the very first two I purchased was an US M1 30 Cal Carbine and an M1 Garand, The 30 Cal was an IBM from 1944 and the Garand was a 1954 Springfield. (I'm sure you know these guns use to be a dime a dozen in Army and Navy Stores back in the day), but man, they go for some serious dollars now. These two were in beautiful shape and I bought them in Honor of my Dad who served in the European Theater of Operations. Anyway - babbling here................ If I can add anything to this coloration I'll re-post.
Coloration to the meer or your thumb? In the service I saw a few cases of M1 thumb. You familiar with that? Fast bolt, slow thumb?




I do not mean to be impolite when I "SNIP" the Quote - - it's just that it is so long!! I just wanted to say YES!!!!! - - OMG - - The first thing I was warned about was "M1 Thumb"!! And when you see that bolt slam home, - - you would NOT want your thumb in there! (It almost happened, but I finally got the uuuuhhhhh method)??? Right. (Just keeping it out of the way) - - - too funny............. :D . Your reply in this Thread RESURFACED all my old feelings for these two old pipes. You have no idea. Today I pulled the trigger HERE:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-1-2-inch-GIGANTIC-1940-WDC-Wellington-CHURCHWARDEN-Estate-Pipe-e94-/260998537817?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc4b9a259

It's obviously from 1940 and looks to be in good if not reconditioned shape. I told you you gave me PAD seriously. I think the price is OK from what I could see because the Gentleman from "Pipes and Cigars" told me his "Large" Wellington was really a "Medium" at 5 inches long. He said "The 9.5” one that you speak of is not in stock with us. We are unable to find any from our distributor at this time. I have something that looks like it on the exterior but does not have the “system” interior. It goes for $88" - - - - Also - - "As for the company that produces those pipes, the Importer we get them from has declined to disclose the exact manufacturer. He did let us know that they are a major manufacturer in Italy.

So - - That's one pipe. - - Today I followed the advice of another "Meerscahum Pro" and Re-Burned "Bees-Wax" rags around the top edge, and also loosely slipped Bees-Wax dripping rags across and around the bowl I did this twice and lit it on fire. Then it was coated in a smooth covering of Bees-Wax and heated with a Heat Gun. Honestly, it brought out some beautiful coloring! (And didn't blow up). I know as I smoke it some of this will go away. It will be fun to see what stays. I'll take pics when I can........ But tonight I am throwing on "For a Few Dollars More" right now and having a bowl in the Meer!

I picked up a copy of the "Pipe Collector" and so far a very different article on Meerschaum in there. Have to read it again. Very scientific! (But good)!
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby ChuckMac » Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:28 am

nak wrote:I do not mean to be impolite when I "SNIP" the Quote - - it's just that it is so long!! I just wanted to say YES!!!!! - - OMG - - The first thing I was warned about was "M1 Thumb"!! And when you see that bolt slam home, - - you would NOT want your thumb in there! (It almost happened, but I finally got the uuuuhhhhh method)??? Right. (Just keeping it out of the way) - - - too funny............. :D . Your reply in this Thread RESURFACED all my old feelings for these two old pipes. You have no idea. Today I pulled the trigger HERE:
No problem. cut it down to size.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-1-2-inch-GIGANTIC-1940-WDC-Wellington-CHURCHWARDEN-Estate-Pipe-e94-/260998537817?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3cc4b9a259

It's obviously from 1940 and looks to be in good if not reconditioned shape. I told you you gave me PAD seriously. I think the price is OK from what I could see because the Gentleman from "Pipes and Cigars" told me his "Large" Wellington was really a "Medium" at 5 inches long. He said "The 9.5” one that you speak of is not in stock with us. We are unable to find any from our distributor at this time. I have something that looks like it on the exterior but does not have the “system” interior. It goes for $88" - - - - Also - - "As for the company that produces those pipes, the Importer we get them from has declined to disclose the exact manufacturer. He did let us know that they are a major manufacturer in Italy.
So! Got yesef another one. Good for you. Enjoy!
Major manufacturer in italy, huh? Close mothed, ain't he?


So - - That's one pipe. - - Today I followed the advice of another "Meerscahum Pro" and Re-Burned "Bees-Wax" rags around the top edge, and also loosely slipped Bees-Wax dripping rags across and around the bowl I did this twice and lit it on fire. Then it was coated in a smooth covering of Bees-Wax and heated with a Heat Gun. Honestly, it brought out some beautiful coloring! (And didn't blow up). I know as I smoke it some of this will go away. It will be fun to see what stays. I'll
I for one am looking forward to seeing the pics.

take pics when I can........ But tonight I am throwing on "For a Few Dollars More" right now and having a bowl in the Meer!
I'm glad to see I'm not the only one that does that. I've got a well colored 1/2 bent that I smoke when I watch that one. Looks nothing like Van Cleefs and isn't intended to. It's just good smoking. I've the G,B&U taped too. No Wellington though. I use a Peterson 301. :oops:

I picked up a copy of the "Pipe Collector" and so far a very different article on Meerschaum in there. Have to read it again. Very scientific! (But good)!
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby Richardpipe » Mon May 28, 2012 10:15 am

those guys made me an awesome custom meerschaum pipe, a great smoker to the bone ..
the name of the meerschaum pipe producer is : Storient Meerschaum pipes
http://www.meerschaumpipe.us

you can ask them as well.
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby meerschaumsteve » Tue Jul 31, 2012 8:26 pm

I recently was very lucky to find an original pipe like Lee used in For A Few Dollars More, it was on eBay, and I won the bidding for it.
I haven't received it yet, but I will post pics of it so you can see. The pictures are from the auction.

The brand of the pipe is Vienna Meerschaum.
I have seen 5-6 other pipes from them with the exact same splotchy yellow with toasted lip finish, but always was a different shape, never like the one in the movie.
After watching eBay for over a year, hoping one like Lee used would show up, finally, one did!

Click the pictures to see larger versions for best detail.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby ChuckMac » Wed Aug 01, 2012 12:41 am

Now THAT'S a score! Yup. Good on ya.
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby Richardpipe » Fri Aug 10, 2012 2:21 am

Good score steve..

However my lee van cleef meerschaum pipe from Storient meerschaum resembles to the original one more than yours.
I wish I could show it how we post a picture here ? :D :roll: :geek:
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby PapaBear » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:48 pm

Richardpipe wrote:Good score steve..

However my lee van cleef meerschaum pipe from Storient meerschaum resembles to the original one more than yours.
I wish I could show it how we post a picture here ? :D :roll: :geek:


I just found the Storient site with it: http://meerschaumpipe.us/lee-van-cleef- ... -pipe.html
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby ChuckMac » Fri Aug 17, 2012 9:50 pm

Look at the bowl on the Storient pipe and then look at the bowl on Van Cleef's meer. Van Cleefs meer was a 1/2 bent billiard. The Storient meer isn't. The bowl is tapered from the top down.
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby PapaBear » Fri Aug 17, 2012 10:04 pm

ChuckMac wrote:Look at the bowl on the Storient pipe and then look at the bowl on Van Cleef's meer. Van Cleefs meer was a 1/2 bent billiard. The Storient meer isn't. The bowl is tapered from the top down.


In all actuality, it probably is the same pipe but they took into account that like Scots Jim, Van Cleef probably whacked a few people on the head with it when his gun wasnt available which in turn "morphed" the bowl over time into the shape you see him smoking and made a Before Whacking Meer as opposed to an After Whacking Meer. :)
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby Richardpipe » Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:08 pm

well mine is this : actually is much more bent than the picture on their website..
I was not able to recognize the difference in the two pictures untill you said tho..

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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby ScotsJim » Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:59 am

Beautiful looking meer you got there Richard.
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby Irminsul » Fri Aug 24, 2012 1:14 pm

This Altinok Lee Van Cleef FAFDM meer just arrived in the mail for me this week. Already smoked some SG Commonwealth and McClellands Legends in it and it's a keeper.

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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby ScotsJim » Fri Aug 24, 2012 4:48 pm

Damn you ! Now I want one :lol:
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby Hermit » Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:44 pm

I want one too.
I can't decide between the Altinok and the Storient.
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Re: Lee Van Cleef Meerschaum?

Postby Richardpipe » Sat Aug 25, 2012 8:51 am

Image

Image

Image

another photo of mine.
I filled my bowl with erinmore mixture.
I see dead Cowboys !!! :)
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