Tamp&Puff member-recommended eBay sellers →  bobus  •  great estate-pipes  •  Judd  •  irishlefty  •  knobby  •  pipestud  •  shiny pipes  •  secondhandsmoker

T&P 2013 POY

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby eric » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:40 am

ragefather wrote:
eric wrote:I'v laid out the details of my single email. Your turn. Lets see the details of every email you sent him. Dates, what was said, and the nature of his reply.


Thanks Eric for clearing some things up. Quick question, has Les responded to you and if so what has he said regarding the project? It sounds like he responded to a friend of yours but not you directly. I could be misunderstanding what you have written.

It could be Les is holding off on responding to T&P for any number of reasons. I think we need to wait to hear from Les directly before we speculate any further.


With all respect, I don't mind answering questions, but please read the answers. I said at the top of page 3 I hadn't heard back from Les . I just looked at the time stamps again and it so happens I sent single email to Les at the same time Mike was posting his first catastrophe post. The extent of what Les has said to me: "please get in touch." That it. I said two pages ago when I hear more, I'll post the nature of it.

Please go back and look at my posted timeline again. It couldn't be clearer than that.
Eric

Subscribe to SPT Email Updates and stay up to date on the latest pipe tobacco news, reviews, and discussion from SmokingPipeTobacco.com.
Follow me on Facebook

About my 130lb weight loss four years ago: My NEW book will be out soon!!!
User avatar
eric
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1461
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:57 am

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby SenatorXMG » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:44 am

cakeanddottle wrote:I'm not publicly posting a private correspondence that contains details Les asked me not to make public, so I have forwarded the entire exchange to SenatorXMG. He can then vouch for what I've said here or call to light any inaccuracies in statements I've made.


My only skin in this game is to get a fine pipe from Les Wood. Nothing more, nothing less.

After looking at the communications between Les and Mike, I see absolutely nothing that wouldn't pass the sniff test. Nothing secretive, nothing out of the ordinary and certainly nothing that I would consider to harm the reputation of T&P, Les Wood, or Mike. Everything that Mike has posted here is in the e-mails. All I see is an exchange of cordial e-mails between two parties coordinating the details of a POY.

My own 2 cents below...

I'm not saying any meddling actually occurred but it certainly does have the appearance of it whether intended or not. It seems kind of obvious that trust is the issue here and I'm not sure why. The 26 people who signed up for the POY were willing to run with Mike. Those same 26 people have the option to bail out. If I were granted the authority to head up something and then had the powers-that-be seemingly checking up on me with or without my knowledge, that would really stink. It's insulting and humiliating to say the least. If you don't want Mike to proceed any further, I think it's only fair to let him and the 26 members who signed up for the POY in on it.

Personally, if I were any type of business person and saw the type of discontent as I do here, it may cause me to wonder if the whole thing may just fall apart. Why would I bother wasting the effort if that were a possibility and why would I want my reputation associated with it?

I hope this thing succeeds because we stand to get an awesome pipe at an unbelievable price. :D

That's about all I am going to say on it. Time for bed!!! :D
Bryan
User avatar
SenatorXMG
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby ragefather » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:48 am

eric wrote:With all respect, I don't mind answering questions, but please read the answers. I said at the top of page 3 I hadn't heard back from Les ...

Please go back and look at my posted timeline again. It couldn't be clearer than that.


eric wrote:Very strange. I just received an email from Les yesterday.


RompinDonkey has said three times that Les has answered an email from you:

RompinDonkey wrote:So it seems that he has ignored your emails, but answered the one from Eric?


What am I missing? On page 3 you said you received an email from Les yesterday and now you say you didn't and chastise me for trying to clear it up.
User avatar
ragefather
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:22 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby eric » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:49 am

cakeanddottle wrote:
englanddave wrote:
cakeanddottle wrote:I'm not publicly posting a private correspondence that contains details Les asked me not to make public, so I have forwarded the entire exchange to SenatorXMG. He can then vouch for what I've said here or call to light any inaccuracies in statements I've made.

Mike as a prospective purchaser of this pipe why all the cloak and dagger.
is there a potential problem or not,as this project has taken on a very strange twist.
Dave


Not at all, I just don't think the conversation we had regarding specifics and pricing is really anyone's business. Was it a good deal for the membership or not? I didn't mislead anyone, just didn't see how a full disclosure of the details was helpful to getting pipes in member's hands. Lastly, I wouldn't presume to speak for Les, only myself.


This is where you and I don't see it the same way. With the exception of the price, which you already explained can't be posted publicly and no one is asking you to, you need to be fully transparent to the entire membership because you are working for them on this. I trusted you to do this project. There needs to be complete transparency. If you can't speak for Les, then who the hell can? You are the one who is coordinating this for the members, not to mention you are the one arguing that you should be the only one talking to Les. That makes you the single conduit between the members of this forum and the man they are buying a pipe from.

Secrets that protect the carver (ie the price) are fine. Secrets that protect anyone else are unnecessary and won't be tolerated. Send me the details. You have my word I will protect Les's confidentiality. And the forum has my word I will protect them and do everything I can to make sure they get the pipe they signed up for.

You didn't need Les's permission to give the info to SenatorXMG, you don't need it to give the details to me.
Eric

Subscribe to SPT Email Updates and stay up to date on the latest pipe tobacco news, reviews, and discussion from SmokingPipeTobacco.com.
Follow me on Facebook

About my 130lb weight loss four years ago: My NEW book will be out soon!!!
User avatar
eric
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1461
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:57 am

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby eric » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:53 am

ragefather wrote:
eric wrote:With all respect, I don't mind answering questions, but please read the answers. I said at the top of page 3 I hadn't heard back from Les ...

Please go back and look at my posted timeline again. It couldn't be clearer than that.


eric wrote:Very strange. I just received an email from Les yesterday.


RompinDonkey has said three times that Les has answered an email from you:

RompinDonkey wrote:So it seems that he has ignored your emails, but answered the one from Eric?


What am I missing? On page 3 you said you received an email from Les yesterday and now you say you didn't and chastise me for trying to clear it up.


Did you read the timeline I posted? BTW, I am not chastising you, sorry you felt that way, just asking that you read my answers to your questions. The information in the timeline is accurate. You can ask RompinDonkey what he meant, but I assume that what Alan meant by "Les answering my email" is that he responded to the third party I asked to forward my email address to Les.
Eric

Subscribe to SPT Email Updates and stay up to date on the latest pipe tobacco news, reviews, and discussion from SmokingPipeTobacco.com.
Follow me on Facebook

About my 130lb weight loss four years ago: My NEW book will be out soon!!!
User avatar
eric
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1461
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:57 am

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby ragefather » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:12 am

eric wrote:Did you read the timeline I posted? BTW, I am not chastising you, sorry you felt that way, just asking that you read my answers to your questions. The information in the timeline is accurate. You can ask RompinDonkey what he meant, but I assume that what Alan meant by "Les answering my email" is that he responded to the third party I asked to forward my email address to Les.


I am not trying to get into a pissing contest here, but you keep telling me to re-read things. This is what you said in the timeline:

eric wrote:I also said that when I hear from him again you guys will be the first to know.


Key word "again", which implies you heard from him before. You might think I am not following along but I am picking up on every word. There are a handful of instances where you say you did hear from him, or you say you didn't; you have to admit that. All I wanted to know was what the actual answer is, to shed some light on the interactions between you and Les, not to be told to go re-read your timeline that has some ambiguities in it.
User avatar
ragefather
 
Posts: 665
Joined: Sun Jan 15, 2012 8:22 pm
Location: Boston

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby eric » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:24 am

ragefather wrote:
eric wrote:Did you read the timeline I posted? BTW, I am not chastising you, sorry you felt that way, just asking that you read my answers to your questions. The information in the timeline is accurate. You can ask RompinDonkey what he meant, but I assume that what Alan meant by "Les answering my email" is that he responded to the third party I asked to forward my email address to Les.


I am not trying to get into a pissing contest here, but you keep telling me to re-read things. This is what you said in the timeline:

eric wrote:I also said that when I hear from him again you guys will be the first to know.


Key word "again", which implies you heard from him before. You might think I am not following along but I am picking up on every word. There are a handful of instances where you say you did hear from him, or you say you didn't; you have to admit that. All I wanted to know was what the actual answer is, to shed some light on the interactions between you and Les, not to be told to go re-read your timeline that has some ambiguities in it.


I don't see the ambiguities. The following is accurate.

Monday I sent out an email to someone else I knew of who would have Les's email. I simply said who I was and asked them to forward the email to Les letting them know I'd like to talk to him.

Les replied Tuesday with a email welcoming me to get in touch with him.

I sent him my first and only email earlier today (a few hours ago) introducing myself, expressed thanks for doing the pipe, and told him I am here for him if he needed anything. Also, since this weekend some of the moderators and I agreed we'd be willing to each pitch in to cover any extra cost to cover the stamp if necessary. I told him about that and made it clear it is not a problem either way and that I didn't want to tamper with any agreements already made.

There has been one email from me to a third party requesting they forward my contact info to Les.
There has been one email directly from Les to me. (Welcoming me to contact him.)
There has been one email directly from me to Les. (This was sent about the same time Mike posted the doom and gloom post.)
Eric

Subscribe to SPT Email Updates and stay up to date on the latest pipe tobacco news, reviews, and discussion from SmokingPipeTobacco.com.
Follow me on Facebook

About my 130lb weight loss four years ago: My NEW book will be out soon!!!
User avatar
eric
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1461
Joined: Sat Apr 18, 2009 12:57 am

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby englanddave » Thu Sep 06, 2012 4:51 am

cakeanddottle wrote:
englanddave wrote:
cakeanddottle wrote:I'm not publicly posting a private correspondence that contains details Les asked me not to make public, so I have forwarded the entire exchange to SenatorXMG. He can then vouch for what I've said here or call to light any inaccuracies in statements I've made.

Mike as a prospective purchaser of this pipe why all the cloak and dagger.
is there a potential problem or not,as this project has taken on a very strange twist.
Dave


Not at all, I just don't think the conversation we had regarding specifics and pricing is really anyone's business. Was it a good deal for the membership or not? I didn't mislead anyone, just didn't see how a full disclosure of the details was helpful to getting pipes in member's hands. Lastly, I wouldn't presume to speak for Les, only myself.

Mike in reply to your answer to me I would like to point out that I didn't ask you to make public the conversation regarding specifics and pricing with Les but from what I can gather from the gloomy tone of your post of Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:12 am Referring to fellow members as shit stirrers or troll's that something has changed.
Believe me I am very pleased with the deal you have brokered with Les but I find it a little disturbing that you chose to use such abusive language to describe member's of this forum.
Dave

“A pipe is to the troubled soul what caresses of a mother are for her suffering child.”
-Indian Proverb
User avatar
englanddave
Supporting Member
Supporting Member
 
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun Feb 27, 2011 3:47 pm
Location: sunny cornwall. uk

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby Bob » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:42 am

Guys,I need to vent here and present my opinions. I'm not doing it as a moderator. I'm doing it as a concerned forum member and I'm not going to pull any punches.

cakeanddottle wrote:So instead of playing head games with your membership with two short, cryptic posts why not just come out and share what the communication was regarding?

Doesn't the membership here at T&P expect Mike to do the same.

cakeanddottle wrote: And just so everyone knows, Eric asked me for Les' contact info over the weekend. I declined and told him in as polite a manner as I could that he had done enough damage to this pipe, and it was time to start supporting it. I thought I'd gotten through to him.


I'd like to read the PM's of that"polite manner". Refusing to provide information on the POY is clearly unethical and against any rational way of running a forum POY. It's not your forum, it's not your thread, it's not your pipe, and it's not within your authority here to disobey a direct request from the site admin.

cakeanddottle wrote:

But in the meantime you went behind the backs of your membership, subverted a process I had started, and now are playing games with what Les said about the POY.


Really? One e-mail to tell Les thanks, contact me if I can help, I don't want to interfere, and the mods will pay for a stamp if that doesn't disrupt anything. Is that subversion? And what about you going behind the backs of admin and the mods when we expected the POY to be a cooperative project ... like every other POY in the world.

cakeanddottle wrote: These are your 26 members, not mine.

Exactly why Eric wants to know what's going on. No massacre planned.

eric wrote:

Would you mind if I copy and pasted the exact text of both our PMs?


Mike, why did you not respond to this? Eric has been transparent and open. Do you have a problem letting the forum members read the PM's?

cakeanddottle wrote: If you guys agree with Bob and Eric than I am living in a fantasy world and really need to examine myself. I am not interested in this drama any more than I was last week, but holy shit, you give me your blessing to do this, it's successful beyond anything like this that T&P has done before


It's true you sold a lot of pipes fast but the process was not in the best interest of all the members. We gave you the blessing but we had no idea you would not allow any coordination with members, Eric and the mods.

cakeanddottle wrote:Just tell me this. If this pipe is still a go, one of us is handling it. Who is that exactly? It seems like I'm out of the loop, and there are less than 30 days to wrap this up.


You are the primary contact since Eric absolutely has not engaged Les on any level concerning the POY deal. We do trust you and want you to do it to completion. But if you can't get over the fact that you don't run this forum then you may be out of the loop. That's your decision. If that ever happened, and I sincerely hope it doesn't, I assure everyone we will work with Les to get you your pipes unless some other sabotage occurs. You have my word.

eric wrote:

Let's hear from Bob who ran the last PoY. Bob - if you were in Mikes shoes would you have had a problem with me reaching out to say hi to Les? Had I contacted Tinsky while you were coordinating the 2012 would you have been terrified Tinsky would stop work on everyone's pipes?


I would have absolutely no problem with you talking to Mark. It would not offend me since I admit It was a learning process for me too. I respect your judgement and business skills in dealing with pipe makers. I would not view it as an "end around". I simply can't comprehend that type of thinking.

cakeanddottle wrote:I'm not publicly posting a private correspondence that contains details Les asked me not to make public, so I have forwarded the entire exchange to SenatorXMG. He can then vouch for what I've said here or call to light any inaccuracies in statements I've made.


No one has ever accused you, Mike ,of any inaccuracies, shady dealings, or lying about anything you have posted. The issue is your belief that it's your pipe and the T&P forum leadership has no business or right to at least see what the business deal is being negotiated in our name. IMO sending the e-mails to SenatorXMG and not Eric is just another example of your disrespect for the forum creator who pays each year and volunteers a lot of his time so you can post here.

cakeanddottle wrote:
Not at all, I just don't think the conversation we had regarding specifics and pricing is really anyone's business.

Wrong. It is T&P's business since you are representing T&P. Is this behavior tolerated in any real business. Hell no.

That's all my opinion on the matter. I'm not perfect either and I'm almost never right. Please comment on my "opinions" but do it in a civil manner. Personal attacks on anyone will be deleted. I'd honestly like to hear the opinions of all the forum members. I'm not trying to create a rift here or an Us vs. Them mentality. Please just read this thread and comment on the facts. Now, I hope I have answered in some way what the hell is going on here.
Bob
Bob
Moderator & Supporting Member
Moderator & Supporting Member
 
Posts: 3703
Joined: Mon Jun 14, 2010 5:39 am
Location: Ohio

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby DaveT » Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:04 am

Can I make a sugestion?

Why doesn't Eric and Mike have a telephone conversation to get the the root of the matter as this online bickering is doing no-one any good?

When they have reached agreement on the way forward, a joint post is put on the forum stating the current status and what the plan is moving forward. I'd also suggest that the look to agree on removing all these "he said, she said" posts as they are a distraction.

Lets learn some lessons here about disclosure and communication... it's not a pissing contest is it?

Chillax... Dave
DaveT
 
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:41 am

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby SenatorXMG » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:28 pm

SenatorXMG wrote:That's about all I am going to say on it.


Since it appears no one really appreciated what I had to say, I feel the need to post again on this matter.

Some are asking for Mike to give full disclosure. I'm not really sure how much more differently he can respond. The truth is the truth. It's like telling someone to tell you the truth, letting them respond with what they have to say, and then over and over again asking them to tell you the truth.

The price was NOT kept a secret. For good reason, all that was asked was that it be provided via PM and out of the public eye. There was no malicious motives.

Exactly what SECRETS are we talking about here that seem to have everyone all riled up? Mike was given the go-ahead from the site OWNER to proceed with arranging this pipe with no requirements. He did so with the best of intentions and did a great job on behalf of the 26 people who signed up for the pipe.

From Les' and Mike's e-mails, there is NOTHING more to tell you than what Mike has stated here over and over again. What is it you would like to know more about? Would you like to know if proper grammar was used in the exchanges? WHAT???? When Mike says "It's none of your business", I'm assuming he means that the nitty gritty details are of no concern to you since there are no secrets to be found. Who will make the pipe and how will it look, how much will it cost, how you will pay for it, how will it ship, what is the ETA is what concerns the people BUYING the pipe.

As for Mike requesting to be the only contact with Les, I think that was more of a way to prevent the too-many-cooks-in-the-kitchen-problem which is now apparently happening!!! How annoying would it be for Les to receive e-mails from all of us asking questions and requesting different things for the same POY? Now that Eric has gone and contacted Les as the site OWNER, perhaps Les is wondering if he was dealing with the appropriate person before. If I were Les, I'd certainly question it. Who had the authority to arrange this in the beginning, he might ask himself.

Here's a story...

You've granted someone permission to paint the inside of your house with no specifications or requirements. The painter eagerly shows up excited with a very nice earth-tone coloured paint and paintbrushes in hand all set to do the work. You kind of sneer at the colour choice and aren't really happy with the fact he didn't seem overly chatty with you when he arrived but you allow him to proceed with setting up. After all, he's there to paint your house and not sit and chat about the details. He begins painting and you're still unsure about the colour. You make a few negative comments about the way he's doing the work even though the quality looks good...you allow him to continue painting for whatever reason. About mid-way through the job, you start to question the painter on the colour choice, his technique, where he buys his paints and brushes from and where he learned his trade, etc. The painter briefly answers some of your questions and tries to ensure you that everything will be just fine if you just allow him to continue...which you do. An hour later, you begin with the questions and negativity again. The painter, already fed up with hearing the prior negative comments, bites back. He tells you, the home OWNER, "You allowed me to paint your house with no specs provided and as you see there is nothing wrong with the quality of my work. I've picked a very nice colour that most people would like and you've even had some neighbors drop by that made comments on how great it made your house look. How I get the resources to do the job and how I acquired my skills is of no concern to you because that was not a requirement. You wanted a painted house...remember? That's what you're getting and it's looking pretty damned good!!! And just to remind you, no one else wanted to paint it and I'm doing it for free!". You wonder to yourself why the painter is so sensitive to your questions and seems so secretive...surely, he must have something to hide. You pick up the phone to call the paint store just to "introduce" yourself as the home OWNER who is having his house painted.
Bryan
User avatar
SenatorXMG
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby SenatorXMG » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:37 pm

Oh, one more thing.

If I were Mike, I would have given up a long, long time ago! Talk about perseverance. I have no patience for this kind of crap and would not need the added frustration.
Bryan
User avatar
SenatorXMG
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:40 pm
Location: Ontario, Canada

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby ruraldean » Thu Sep 06, 2012 1:53 pm

SenatorXMG wrote:Oh, one more thing.

If I were Mike, I would have given up a long, long time ago! Talk about perseverance. I have no patience for this kind of crap and would not need the added frustration.


I suspect you may not have created the extra frustration for yourself. You may not have given people 48 hours to order the pipe for example. Or you may have recognised that a POY has at least SOME link with the site owner and name, and may have insisted it be marked somehow. You may have allowed ALL members access to the pipe. You may have shared information voluntarily with the site owner, and I'm sure you wouldn't be bad-mannered enough to downright refuse when asked. Nor would you provide the information requested to a third party, still excluding the person who asked for it.

But then again, you're not Mike.

The house painting analogy is interesting. I note the painter is working for the owner, doing a job for him. Here on the forum the owner is excluded from the process and the pipes are being made for the members. Doesn't really work that well does it?
Regards
Paul
http://crimsonleaf.co.uk
http://lefthandedscribblings.co.uk

"The pipe draws wisdom from the lips of the philosopher, and shuts up the mouth of the foolish; it generates a style of conversation, contemplative, thoughtful, benevolent, and unaffected..."

-William Makepeace Thackeray, from The Social Pipe

We nicknamed our granddad Spider Man. Not because he had special powers, but because he couldn't get out of the bath...
ruraldean
Plank Owner
Plank Owner
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:07 pm
Location: S W England

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby cakeanddottle » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:19 pm

ruraldean wrote:
SenatorXMG wrote:Oh, one more thing.

If I were Mike, I would have given up a long, long time ago! Talk about perseverance. I have no patience for this kind of crap and would not need the added frustration.


I suspect you may not have created the extra frustration for yourself. You may not have given people 48 hours to order the pipe for example. Or you may have recognised that a POY has at least SOME link with the site owner and name, and may have insisted it be marked somehow. You may have allowed ALL members access to the pipe. You may have shared information voluntarily with the site owner, and I'm sure you wouldn't be bad-mannered enough to downright refuse when asked. Nor would you provide the information requested to a third party, still excluding the person who asked for it.

But then again, you're not Mike.


This post is a perfect illustration of what is going on here.

The only reason I am still here after all that has happened is that I take very seriously the good will I have for and the deal that I made for 26+ pipe smokers who are signed up for one.

Eric and team have one agenda at this point, at least it's crystal clear to me. To discredit me and put themselves in the best possible light. Unfortunately for them, I think that the overwhelming majority of those who read through this bs will see right through them. My wife, who read one page of this thread with no other knowledge of the particulars of this ordeal, asked me "why are you doing anything for this liar? Move on.". It was obvious to her after a only a handful of his posts. I think it's obvious to anyone who reads this thread, and the PMs I've received from the core members here regarding this mess reflect that sentiment.

Les would have to be a saint to still want to have his name associated with this forum after the behavior of management this last week. My apologies to him and all the members on the list. I've reached the limit of my endurance with this bs. I am heading to Paypal after clicking submit on this post and refunding member funds. Eric and cronies are then free to spin this any way they want, I'm not playing any more.

Any pipe smokers who want to contact me or whose stomachs were turned by this affair and want to be exiles somewhere else can seek me out at my site where I will respond to any PMs. Hopefully they'll leave my account here intact for a few days so I can respond to anyone who PMs me here regarding this stillborn pipe, but this concludes my participation in this forum.
~Mike
I would find the removal of CH to be akin to removal of oxygen from the atmosphere -morleysson
Government's first duty is to protect the people, not run their lives -Ronald Reagan
Image
User avatar
cakeanddottle
 
Posts: 3618
Joined: Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:20 am
Location: Red Oak, IA

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby drl » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:27 pm

Dean, good on your for editing out that part of your post where you made a jab at Bryan by questioning his objectivity because of "loyalty" to Mike. I started this post to take issue with that, I'm glad you thought better of it and instead questioned his painter analogy, which IMO is quite applicable actually.

Anyway, I have to ask the SAME thing I asked the first time this drama erupted. What is there possibly to gain from all of this bickering and stating of opinions/grievances?

In my mind it seems clear that Mike is leaving this forum once the POY project is completed. And the lessons learned for the next POY are very clear if anyone undertakes it, in fact it sounds like there will be "rules" put out by forum leadership. So what is the point in all this?

As an aside, no matter what anyone else thinks of Mike and his attitude, you have absolutely no right to imply that he is a liar or a thief without proof of either. That really upsets me.

Anyway, this whole thread is appalling. I'm not taking sides, there is plenty of blame to go around. Mike didn't handle things perfectly by any means but the actions and posts of many involved here are disturbing. In my humble opinion.

edit: And I see Mike posted while I was typing this. So there you go.
Dave
User avatar
drl
 
Posts: 559
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2012 5:04 am

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby acaciavet » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:50 pm

Well Well Well My Ferndown just went down the sewer. I want to thank one clown for leading the cheerleading section.I am not leaving my beloved forum but I will not support any POY Projects . I am a Pipe smoker and Pipe collector not A politician so if you want to talk pipes look me up.If you want to cry dont bother me.
Once a Coastie always a Coastie
Chuck
User avatar
acaciavet
Plank Owner
Plank Owner
 
Posts: 4971
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:05 pm
Location: The Shores of Lake Ontario,Sanborn NY.

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby ruraldean » Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:59 pm

cakeanddottle wrote:This post is a perfect illustration of what is going on here.

The only reason I am still here after all that has happened is that I take very seriously the good will I have for and the deal that I made for 26+ pipe smokers who are signed up for one.

Eric and team have one agenda at this point, at least it's crystal clear to me. To discredit me and put themselves in the best possible light. Unfortunately for them, I think that the overwhelming majority of those who read through this bs will see right through them. My wife, who read one page of this thread with no other knowledge of the particulars of this ordeal, asked me "why are you doing anything for this liar? Move on.". It was obvious to her after a only a handful of his posts. I think it's obvious to anyone who reads this thread, and the PMs I've received from the core members here regarding this mess reflect that sentiment.

Les would have to be a saint to still want to have his name associated with this forum after the behavior of management this last week. My apologies to him and all the members on the list. I've reached the limit of my endurance with this bs. I am heading to Paypal after clicking submit on this post and refunding member funds. Eric and cronies are then free to spin this any way they want, I'm not playing any more.

Any pipe smokers who want to contact me or whose stomachs were turned by this affair and want to be exiles somewhere else can seek me out at http://cakeanddottle.com/forum where I will respond to any PMs. Hopefully they'll leave my account here intact for a few days so I can respond to anyone who PMs me here regarding this stillborn pipe, but this concludes my participation in this forum.


Mike, you say "The only reason I am still here after all that has happened is that I take very seriously the good will I have for and the deal that I made for 26+ pipe smokers who are signed up for one."

then you say "I am heading to Paypal after clicking submit on this post and refunding member funds. Eric and cronies are then free to spin this any way they want, I'm not playing any more."

And this is exactly why you're at the centre of some of the rows we've had here - flying off the handle when questioned or challenged. And now you've followed up with contradictory statements in the same post.

You're 100% wrong about the admin team's motivation. Those who have the time might like to read our history of posts as a team. We're reasonable and have always held member interests to be paramount. That's why some of us were pissed when the order book closed so quickly and so many members missed the opportunity. We also have loyalty to the man whose forum this is; the guy who pays for it and allows you to do your stuff. But that loyalty isn't blind and the team holds a range of opinions. If you think hard you might realise that I'm not out to get you for example, as it was only a week or two ago that I was driving people to your other venture, including Eric in a PM, so your divide and conquer tactic won't work.

As for your actions - it's been clear since the moment you started replacing your valuable posts with "lorem ipsem" in another thread that you were considering a move. Personally I'd rather you had the balls to see through what you've started, rather than running away and blaming the nasty mods. As for trying to poach members from this forum, I seem to recollect that you invited everyone over to the Cake and Dottle site before...

Regarding refunds, a few will blame us for your actions, and some will say you've done exactly as expected when anyone questions you. Those in between will form their own opinions over time, but you're not the only one who gets PMs Mike.

By the way, your wife seems to think someone on here is a liar. This is the first time I've heard that accusation so I'd be grateful if you or she could clear up exactly who is supposed to have lied, and about what.
Regards
Paul
http://crimsonleaf.co.uk
http://lefthandedscribblings.co.uk

"The pipe draws wisdom from the lips of the philosopher, and shuts up the mouth of the foolish; it generates a style of conversation, contemplative, thoughtful, benevolent, and unaffected..."

-William Makepeace Thackeray, from The Social Pipe

We nicknamed our granddad Spider Man. Not because he had special powers, but because he couldn't get out of the bath...
ruraldean
Plank Owner
Plank Owner
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:07 pm
Location: S W England

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby ruraldean » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:02 pm

drl wrote:
As an aside, no matter what anyone else thinks of Mike and his attitude, you have absolutely no right to imply that he is a liar or a thief without proof of either. That really upsets me.



It would upset me too. Where has anyone implied Mike a liar or a thief? Because I've looked and can't find anything.
Regards
Paul
http://crimsonleaf.co.uk
http://lefthandedscribblings.co.uk

"The pipe draws wisdom from the lips of the philosopher, and shuts up the mouth of the foolish; it generates a style of conversation, contemplative, thoughtful, benevolent, and unaffected..."

-William Makepeace Thackeray, from The Social Pipe

We nicknamed our granddad Spider Man. Not because he had special powers, but because he couldn't get out of the bath...
ruraldean
Plank Owner
Plank Owner
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:07 pm
Location: S W England

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby ruraldean » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:03 pm

acaciavet wrote:Well Well Well My Ferndown just went down the sewer. I want to thank one clown for leading the cheerleading section.I am not leaving my beloved forum but I will not support any POY Projects . I am a Pipe smoker and Pipe collector not A politician so if you want to talk pipes look me up.If you want to cry dont bother me.


If you name the clown we can deal with him.
Regards
Paul
http://crimsonleaf.co.uk
http://lefthandedscribblings.co.uk

"The pipe draws wisdom from the lips of the philosopher, and shuts up the mouth of the foolish; it generates a style of conversation, contemplative, thoughtful, benevolent, and unaffected..."

-William Makepeace Thackeray, from The Social Pipe

We nicknamed our granddad Spider Man. Not because he had special powers, but because he couldn't get out of the bath...
ruraldean
Plank Owner
Plank Owner
 
Posts: 1054
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 3:07 pm
Location: S W England

Re: Pertinent Information from Original 2013 PoY Thread

Postby acaciavet » Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:07 pm

ruraldean wrote:
acaciavet wrote:Well Well Well My Ferndown just went down the sewer. I want to thank one clown for leading the cheerleading section.I am not leaving my beloved forum but I will not support any POY Projects . I am a Pipe smoker and Pipe collector not A politician so if you want to talk pipes look me up.If you want to cry dont bother me.


If you name the clown we can deal with him.



I just sent you A PM.
Once a Coastie always a Coastie
Chuck
User avatar
acaciavet
Plank Owner
Plank Owner
 
Posts: 4971
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:05 pm
Location: The Shores of Lake Ontario,Sanborn NY.

PreviousNext

Return to Pipe of the Year

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest