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Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby KevLa » Sun Feb 19, 2017 12:08 am

Dodger wrote:...whether the hiatus in production counts .

I believe the F.D.A. claims such a hiatus would count :(
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby Dodger » Sun Feb 19, 2017 5:30 pm

Shame ,because of them a great brand will probably disappear .
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby KevLa » Sun Feb 19, 2017 6:10 pm

Yeah, and a lot of other brands/blends, too. This is just the tip of the iceberg :(
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby ratatosk » Tue Feb 21, 2017 3:40 am

KevLa wrote:But none of the current incarnations of Dunhill blends were on the market in (February, isn't it?) 2007, were they? I started smoking a pipe in August 2010, and I could swear I recall the return of the Dunhill brand to pipe tobacco :?


It is August, 2007, and I think that what you are remembering is a period in which Dunhill was without a US distributor for a time which induced some panic buying. I was not actively smoking pipes during that period, but had certainly smoked Dunhill blends up into the 2000's off and on.

But if they choose to treat blends that were not on the US market continuously from Forever, the winner is going to be Mac Baren, I don't think that they have been interrupted since the 50's.
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby KevLa » Tue Feb 21, 2017 8:10 am

ratatosk wrote:It is August, 2007, and I think that what you are remembering is a period in which Dunhill was without a US distributor for a time which induced some panic buying. I was not actively smoking pipes during that period, but had certainly smoked Dunhill blends up into the 2000's off and on...

According to an article (http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/tobacco-policies-legislation/new-fda-regulations-how-do-they-impact-the-pipe-world/#more-10177) on http://www.PipesMagazine.com , admittedly from August of last year:-

"...Any new products that were not on the market on 2/15/2007 must submit a Premarket Tobacco Application that is wildly expensive. (Not even the FDA is willing to estimate the cost.) The only ways to avoid this is to prove that the new product is substantially equivalent to one on the market on 2/15/07, or to apply for an exemption for standard equivalence. Proving that your product is substantially equivalent to somebody else’s product is not acceptable.

Furthermore, only pipes and pipe tobaccos that were on the market on (not prior to) 2/15/2007 are grandfathered in. Reintroduction of an old pipe model or tobacco blend is considered by the FDA as a new product..."


Do you know something about the grandfather date being changed by six months? I can't seem to find anything other than the 15th February 2007 date :?
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby ratatosk » Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:27 am

I stand corrected, Kev, it is February. What I was thinking about is the 2 year transition period to August, 2018, before the rules take effect.

It remains to be seen just how onerous establishing an exemption or equivalency will be. They seem to be focused on vape and hookah stuff that young people like, pipe tobacco is almost an afterthought. But we'll see.
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby KevLa » Wed Feb 22, 2017 7:49 am

ratatosk wrote:I stand corrected, Kev, it is February. What I was thinking about is the 2 year transition period to August, 2018, before the rules take effect...

That's cool, Richard. I thought that might be what you were thinking of :)
...It remains to be seen just how onerous establishing an exemption or equivalency will be. They seem to be focused on vape and hookah stuff that young people like, pipe tobacco is almost an afterthought. But we'll see.

As I have stated elsewhere on this forum, my theory is that this is all about control of the vaping industry. The only way the F.D.A. can control vaping liquids (i.e. products that do not contain tobacco) is by deeming them as containing tobacco. And the only way they can get away with that is by treating all of the true tobacco products the same way. Likewise, the only way they can control vapouriser gadgets is by deeming them as tobacco products, and therefore they also have to deem pipes as tobacco products. But you're right, sir; we will see... :|
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby KevinM » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:34 pm

Although I love London and Elizabethan mixtures, there are skads of other non-Dunhill blends I enjoy as well. I think I'll personally survive a removal from the market.
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby KevLa » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:46 pm

It's not only Dunhill blends that are disappearing... :(
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby Dodger » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:25 pm

The depth of the tins has changed to nearly twice the size ,this may account for the shortage of supply ,as there was apparently some production problems .
Still it does not mean that they are staying in the market ,but it does seem it's more likely .
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby KevLa » Fri Mar 03, 2017 11:38 pm

Dodger wrote:The depth of the tins has changed to nearly twice the size ,this may account for the shortage of supply ,as there was apparently some production problems .
Still it does not mean that they are staying in the market ,but it does seem it's more likely .

Thanks, Dodger; this is most interesting. I have just searched for "Dunhill pipe tobacco", using Google, and found only this:-
http://halfwheel.com/dunhill-plans-exit-cigar-pipe-business
Perhaps it is only Dunhill cigars that are disappearing, then...? :?
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby ratatosk » Sat Mar 04, 2017 12:37 am

No problem ordering a pound of Early Morning Pipe from smokingpipes a couple of weeks ago, I reckon I could have ordered as much as they have on hand, no quotas. Here's what is surprising, when I ordered a pound of the same in November, 2012, after the usual October sales were done, the order came through as:

Dunhill: Early Morning Pipe (#005-341-0001): 1
Options: 16oz
Item Total: $55.39

As of Feb 17, 2017, I see

005-341-0001
Early Morning Pipe
1
Options: 16oz
$51.22

There is no Dunhill sale on, I wonder why over 4 years later, the same order has actually dropped in price by 9% or so? In any case, I have plans to order at least one USST* of baccy a month until this is clarified.

* US Shit-Ton
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby KevLa » Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:23 am

ratatosk wrote:...I have plans to order at least one USST* of baccy a month until this is clarified.

* US Shit-Ton

Hahahahahaha! :lol: Nice one :)
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby ratatosk » Tue Mar 14, 2017 1:05 am

I happened to smoke some 4+ year old Dunhill Standard Mixture and London Mixture recently, I had not smoked either in a year or so. They were excellent and clearly age well, so I went to smokingpipes to stock up a bit in anticipation of Dunhillaclypse only to find that Standard Mixture is sold out. I don't know whether that means anything or not, but I went to pipesandcigars to actually order.

The good news is that they have a 4for3 sale on for Dunhill, so I ordered 12 of each instead of the intended 10 and got 6 "free" tins. The bad news is that their order system is all jacked up so they are asking for patience while they sort it out. I don't care about delays, but will be greatly annoyed if it turns out that their inventory count was wrong.
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby PipeStoke » Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:53 am

ratatosk wrote:No problem ordering a pound of Early Morning Pipe from smokingpipes a couple of weeks ago, I reckon I could have ordered as much as they have on hand, no quotas. Here's what is surprising, when I ordered a pound of the same in November, 2012, after the usual October sales were done, the order came through as:

Dunhill: Early Morning Pipe (#005-341-0001): 1
Options: 16oz
Item Total: $55.39

As of Feb 17, 2017, I see

005-341-0001
Early Morning Pipe
1
Options: 16oz
$51.22

There is no Dunhill sale on, I wonder why over 4 years later, the same order has actually dropped in price by 9% or so? In any case, I have plans to order at least one USST* of baccy a month until this is clarified.

* US Shit-Ton


Exchange rate, I reckon. Pound Sterling has gone down by about 25% against the Dollar since 2012.
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby ratatosk » Mon Mar 20, 2017 11:29 pm

A good idea, but maybe not the explanation. Dunhill is blended in Denmark and never passes through the UK on its way here, so GBP rates don't matter. I am too lazy to look up historical DKK vs. USD, but you are probably right about it generally favoring imports into US over the past 5 years.
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby FightnHampsters » Wed May 10, 2017 1:41 pm

KevLa wrote:
ratatosk wrote:It is August, 2007, and I think that what you are remembering is a period in which Dunhill was without a US distributor for a time which induced some panic buying. I was not actively smoking pipes during that period, but had certainly smoked Dunhill blends up into the 2000's off and on...

According to an article (http://pipesmagazine.com/blog/tobacco-policies-legislation/new-fda-regulations-how-do-they-impact-the-pipe-world/#more-10177) on http://www.PipesMagazine.com , admittedly from August of last year:-

"...Any new products that were not on the market on 2/15/2007 must submit a Premarket Tobacco Application that is wildly expensive. (Not even the FDA is willing to estimate the cost.) The only ways to avoid this is to prove that the new product is substantially equivalent to one on the market on 2/15/07, or to apply for an exemption for standard equivalence. Proving that your product is substantially equivalent to somebody else’s product is not acceptable.

Furthermore, only pipes and pipe tobaccos that were on the market on (not prior to) 2/15/2007 are grandfathered in. Reintroduction of an old pipe model or tobacco blend is considered by the FDA as a new product..."


Do you know something about the grandfather date being changed by six months? I can't seem to find anything other than the 15th February 2007 date :?


Reading through this I forgot that the FDA stuff effects Pipes as well, not just tobacco. So crazy. I guess I may have to add PAD to my TAD :(
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby KevLa » Wed May 10, 2017 2:43 pm

My strategy is to prioritise tobacco far above pipes, but to each his own :)
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby FightnHampsters » Wed May 10, 2017 4:32 pm

I agree. That is what I have been doing. I wonder how in the world pipe sellers will be able to survive. Do they have to register every pipe style unless it was in manufacture 2/17?
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Re: Dunhill Withdrawal From US Market

Postby KevLa » Wed May 10, 2017 6:42 pm

FightnHampsters wrote:...Do they have to register every pipe style unless it was in manufacture 2/17?

Every pipe design that's not been on the market non-stop since before February, 2007, I think :(
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